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[HOME_NETWORK_TF] minutes - 7 June 2011

From: Kazuyuki Ashimura <ashimura@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2011 03:29:48 +0900
Message-ID: <4DEE6E1C.8080006@w3.org>
To: public-web-and-tv@w3.org
available at:
http://www.w3.org/2011/06/07-webtv-minutes.html

also as text below.

Thanks,

Kazuyuki

---
   [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

                Home Networking Task Force Teleconference
                               07 Jun 2011

    [2]Agenda

       [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-and-tv/2011Jun/0062.html

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2011/06/07-webtv-irc

Attendees

    Present
           Clarke, igarashi, rberkoff, JanL, kwansuk, davidmays,
           donghyun_kang, francois, giuseppep, jcdufourd, kaz

    Regrets
    Chair
           Giuseppe

    Scribe
           francois, kaz (after francois left)

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]Service User Interface (ISSUE-4)
          2. [6]Service Migration (ISSUE-7)
          3. [7]Service Distribution (ISSUE-8)
          4. [8]Application exposing a service (ISSUE-12)
          5. [9]Application responding to requests (ISSUE-13)
          6. [10]Application Discovering a Service (ISSUE-14)
          7. [11]Application Migration (ISSUE-15)
          8. [12]Web and Device Interworking (ISSUE-16)
          9. [13]Home Network enabled User-Agent (ISSUE-17)
      * [14]Summary of Action Items
      _________________________________________________________

Service User Interface (ISSUE-4)

    <francois> scribe: francois

    giuseppe: I'm fine with integrating this use cases with some
    comments I posted on the mailing-list.
    ... Other opinions on this?
    ... It's just a basic description of being able to interact with a
    service.

    <jcdufourd>
    [15]http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Home_Network_TF_Discussio
    ns/ServiceUI

      [15] http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Home_Network_TF_Discussions/ServiceUI

    ISSUE-4?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-4 -- Use Case: Service User Interface -- open

    <trackbot> [16]http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/4

      [16] http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/4

    giuseppe: I'll merge this use case in the document

    JeanClaude: I tried to address your comments, in particular the
    justification.

    fd: can we close the issue then?

    giuseppe: yes.

    <scribe> ACTION: giuseppe to merge use case of ISSUE-4 in
    requirements document [recorded in
    [17]http://www.w3.org/2011/06/07-webtv-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-34 - Merge use case of ISSUE-4 in
    requirements document [on Giuseppe Pascale - due 2011-06-14].

    close ISSUE-4

    <trackbot> ISSUE-4 Use Case: Service User Interface closed

Service Migration (ISSUE-7)

    ISSUE-7?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-7 -- Use case: Service Migration -- open

    <trackbot> [18]http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/7

      [18] http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/7

    giuseppe: any further comments?

    <kaz>  [19]http://www.w3.org/1998/12/bridge/Zakim.html ]

      [19] http://www.w3.org/1998/12/bridge/Zakim.html

    JeanClaude: last time, there was misunderstanding because there's a
    user interface described in the use case. I moved the user interface
    into the radio controller only. So now the service that migrates has
    no user interface.

    Giuseppe: the other comment was why we'd need a specific use case
    for this.
    ... It's similar to another use case on Application Migration.

    JeanClaude: ah ok, I had misunderstood your comment as applying to
    ISSUE-15 which I updated.

    Giuseppe: OK, let me take a look at it again. If there are no other
    comments, we can quickly go through it next call.

    Russell: Question on how the TV UA discover the other UA?

    JeanClaude: A User-Agent implements a standard service, for instance
    HNTFUA. When you start a User-Agent, it discovers its peers, and
    then, whenever a user requests migration, the UA can provide a list
    of potential target devices.
    ... Then, as part of the HNTF UA, there should be a "migrate"
    message, taking two parameters, e.g. the application URI and some
    URI to retrieve the execution context, so that the application can
    be restarted on the other side.

    Russell: So where is the HNTF UA service hosted?

    JeanClaude: There should one per device/User-Agent

    Russell: So how does a service discover the other HNTF UAs? What's
    the discovery mechanism? mDns?

    JeanClaude: some discovery mechanism, yes.

    Russell: You might want to state that you have a dependency on
    discovery here.

    giuseppe: Good point, yes.

    Russell: [comment on security]

    JeanClaude: In our implementation at least, if anybody contacts a UA
    on this service, the UA checks the target UA. It would not transfer
    anything to a service that is not an HNTF UA.

    giuseppe: We have security concerns for all use cases.
    ... Action is to include Russell's comment on discovery.
    ... If so, once comments are applied, I'll merge it into the
    requirements document.

    <scribe> ACTION: jc to add clarify dependency on discovery mechanism
    for ISSUE-7 [recorded in
    [20]http://www.w3.org/2011/06/07-webtv-minutes.html#action02]

    <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - jc

    <scribe> ACTION: Jean-Claude to add clarify dependency on discovery
    mechanism for ISSUE-7 [recorded in
    [21]http://www.w3.org/2011/06/07-webtv-minutes.html#action03]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-35 - Add clarify dependency on discovery
    mechanism for ISSUE-7 [on Jean-Claude Dufourd - due 2011-06-14].

Service Distribution (ISSUE-8)

    <jcdufourd> As there are more devices in the home, some generic and
    some task-specific, and with varying capabilities (including
    different UI methods), there is a growing need to spread an
    application across different devices to achieve service
    distribution. But the service usually "enters" the home network
    through one particular device. The service running entirely on the
    initial device, as part of other use cases, can discover its
    environment and determine that other

    JeanClaude: I added some text to clarify the use case (copied above)

    giuseppe: I'm fine with that text. Concerns from anyone?
    ... Can we approve this?

    <scribe> ACTION: giuseppe to merge use case of ISSUE-8 in
    requirements document [recorded in
    [22]http://www.w3.org/2011/06/07-webtv-minutes.html#action04]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-36 - Merge use case of ISSUE-8 in
    requirements document [on Giuseppe Pascale - due 2011-06-14].

    close ISSUE-8

    <trackbot> ISSUE-8 Use case: Service Distribution closed

Application exposing a service (ISSUE-12)

    ISSUE-12?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-12 -- Document Exposing a Service -- raised

    <trackbot> [23]http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/12

      [23] http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/12

    giuseppe: any outstanding issue on this?
    ... If not, let's approve the use case.

    <scribe> ACTION: giuseppe to merge use case of ISSUE-12 in
    requirements document [recorded in
    [24]http://www.w3.org/2011/06/07-webtv-minutes.html#action05]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-37 - Merge use case of ISSUE-12 in
    requirements document [on Giuseppe Pascale - due 2011-06-14].

    close ISSUE-12

    <trackbot> ISSUE-12 Document Exposing a Service closed

Application responding to requests (ISSUE-13)

    ISSUE-13?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-13 -- Document Responding to Requests -- raised

    <trackbot> [25]http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/13

      [25] http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/13

    giuseppe: wondering whether this use case is required. This is
    included in the other use cases.
    ... What are people views on this?

    ??2: Let's just make it's covered. If it is, then let's drop it.

    <MattH> +1

    giuseppe: yes, it is, unless we require that two applications need
    to be able to communicate.

    JeanClaude: I'm fine if you consider it implicit.

    giuseppe: OK, I think we can close this without any further action.

    close ISSUE-13

    <trackbot> ISSUE-13 Document Responding to Requests closed

Application Discovering a Service (ISSUE-14)

    ISSUE-14?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-14 -- Document Discovering a Service -- raised

    <trackbot> [26]http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/14

      [26] http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/14

    giuseppe: comments on this that need to be addressed?
    ... OK, I think we can merge this as well.

    <scribe> ACTION: giuseppe to merge use case of ISSUE-14 in
    requirements document [recorded in
    [27]http://www.w3.org/2011/06/07-webtv-minutes.html#action06]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-38 - Merge use case of ISSUE-14 in
    requirements document [on Giuseppe Pascale - due 2011-06-14].

    close ISSUE-14

    <trackbot> ISSUE-14 Document Discovering a Service closed

Application Migration (ISSUE-15)

    ISSUE-15?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-15 -- Document Migration -- raised

    <trackbot> [28]http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/15

      [28] http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/15

    giuseppe: I had some comments, but think you handled them. I just
    need to check, so will get back to you offline.
    ... Is it clear now the use case, or are there still concerns?

    Russell: essential difference between ISSUE-7 and ISSUE-15?

    JeanClaude: The only thing you need to do when migrating a service
    without a UI, the only thing you need to do is backup and restore
    the execution context.

    Russell: so if you move the UI, you have application migration?

    JeanClaude: no, ISSUE-7 is also migrating a service that exposes a
    service.
    ... Example of Media rendering on a TV moved to a computer. The
    media rendering on the TV has some connections. The difference is
    that when you move the service, it's an application migration, dealt
    with by ISSUE-15, plus it needs to expose the service on the target
    device, and then it needs to re-establish the connections.
    ... You need to wait before the connections are re-established.

    Russell: would it be clearer to expose that in a single use case
    with derivatives?

    JeanClaude: it was one use case and I was asked to split it.

    David: Two comments. We seem to be using "documents" and
    "applications" interchangeably. Is it intended?

    JeanClaude: no, we started with Document, but switched to
    Application, so all use cases have been re-written to say
    "application".

    giuseppe: Yes, I added definitions to the document, please check the
    definitions and send comments!
    ... They are not the same.

    David: The directionality of the move is only initiated from the
    phone in the case presented. This is allowing to initiate the
    migration from the original device, not from the target device.
    ... There might be a need for a use case where the target device
    serves as originator for the migration.

    JeanClaude: very good idea!

    Clarke: Do we need to check security here? I may not want my mobile
    device to be able to migrate something to my tablet for instance.

    DavidMays: Yes, it raises concerns in both directions.
    ... Alerts on both devices may be needed.

    giuseppe: action plan would be to extend the use case for push and
    pull

    fd: wondering about splitting the push and pull use cases instead of
    merging them. They sound rather different. We seem to have preferred
    more atomic use cases so far, which is the reason why I'm pointing
    that out.

    giuseppe: I don't know, no strong opinion on this.

    JeanClaude: you pick, I'll do whatever you want...

    <scribe> ACTION: Jean-Claude to extend use case of ISSUE-15 by
    creating a new use case for pull scenario [recorded in
    [29]http://www.w3.org/2011/06/07-webtv-minutes.html#action07]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-39 - Extend use case of ISSUE-15 by
    creating a new use case for pull scenario [on Jean-Claude Dufourd -
    due 2011-06-14].

    kaz: we can probably categorize the requirements later on from the
    use cases.
    ... Maybe we should have that categorization phase later on.

    giuseppe: yes, I'm starting to believe it's better to put everything
    in there and go through the list again with categorization in mind
    later on.

    fd: any more comment on ISSUE-15 actually or do we need to wait for
    new use case?

    giuseppe: I wanted to check on comments addressed by Jean-Claude, so
    we'll approve it next time.

    <davidmays> is this the canonical list of issues?
    [30]http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/products/2

      [30] http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/products/2

Web and Device Interworking (ISSUE-16)

    ISSUE-16?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-16 -- Web and Device Interworking -- raised

    <trackbot> [31]http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/16

      [31] http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/16

    giuseppe: sorry, didn't have time to check this. Will do it for next
    time.
    ... We'll touch on this during next call.

Home Network enabled User-Agent (ISSUE-17)

    ISSUE-17?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-17 -- Use Case: Home Network Enabled User-Agent --
    raised

    <trackbot> [32]http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/17

      [32] http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/17

    <rberkoff>
    [33]http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Home_Network_TF_Discussio
    ns/UPnPHomeNetworkUA

      [33] http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Home_Network_TF_Discussions/UPnPHomeNetworkUA

    Russell: During previous call, there were comments to remove
    dependencies on UPnP, DLNA, HTML5 and so on, so I updated it.
    ... Quite a large use case.
    ... I suspect this use case can generate a number of smaller use
    cases.

    Clarke: these use cases are basically A/V use cases, there are other
    use cases such as (?missed?)

    <JanL> +q

    Russell: The bullet point on controlling future home network device
    classes would include non A/V use cases.
    ... [going through the list of bullets]

    <Clarke> Sorry for the noise. The other use cases could include
    things like lighting, thermostats and other non-AV devices

    <kaz> [
    [34]http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Home_Network_TF_Discussio
    ns/UPnPHomeNetworkUA ]

      [34] http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Home_Network_TF_Discussions/UPnPHomeNetworkUA

    Russell: each scenario could potentially be turned in a specific use
    case. I'm not quite sure whether we want to accommodate 40 more
    issues, as it would take a long time to go through it.

    giuseppe: Yes, I went quickly through this. One comment is that we
    need to define what a Media Player, Media Server and other terms you
    use mean.

    Russell: In the scenario steps, there are a bunch of functions that
    such components would implement.
    ... [going into example of functions that a media player would need
    to implement]
    ... Question is how to submit this into the issue database.
    ... It's been posted relatively recently.

    Jan: Looking through the steps and you're using the terms "Web Page"
    but we decided to use "applications".
    ... Clarification on User-Agent [missed details].

    Russell: I thought User Agent was pretty well defined in W3C.
    ... I can clarify the part on the password. Not passed over the
    network. Locally, the user agent has a password database.

    <JanL> -q

    MattH: Device is used a lot here. Do you intend the term "device" or
    is "service" enough?

    Russell: they can more or less be used interchangeably.
    ... I think there are some distinction to make here and there.
    Device is a bundle of services here.

    Matt: I would agree for a definition of device as a set of services,
    yes.
    ... I'm conscious that the set of use cases here focus on the 3-box
    model.
    ... I'd be keen to see separate use case that covers the 2-box
    model.

    Russell: the Media player can be a 2-box use case.
    ... Two entities involved in that scenario.
    ... Three entities if a third entity controlled the two first
    entities.

    <kaz> scribenick: kaz

    giuseppep: we're out of time, so would suggest we talk about this
    offline or during next call

    kaz: two rather urgent topics: 1. Device APIs WG charter AC review,
    2. f2f of (not for this HNTF but) whole the IG in September. I'll
    send an email about them later

    david: brief comment
    ... on security
    ... how to mention security principles for use cases?

    giuseppep: my plan is considering that after our putting all the use
    cases in one document

    <davidmays> -q

    giuseppep: let's discuss that as well offline since we're out of
    time
    ... just would like to suggest split UPnP/DLNA use cases

    <inserted> russell: would like to talk about the detail next week

    [ adjourned ]

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: giuseppe to merge use case of ISSUE-12 in requirements
    document [recorded in
    [35]http://www.w3.org/2011/06/07-webtv-minutes.html#action05]
    [NEW] ACTION: giuseppe to merge use case of ISSUE-14 in requirements
    document [recorded in
    [36]http://www.w3.org/2011/06/07-webtv-minutes.html#action06]
    [NEW] ACTION: giuseppe to merge use case of ISSUE-4 in requirements
    document [recorded in
    [37]http://www.w3.org/2011/06/07-webtv-minutes.html#action01]
    [NEW] ACTION: giuseppe to merge use case of ISSUE-8 in requirements
    document [recorded in
    [38]http://www.w3.org/2011/06/07-webtv-minutes.html#action04]
    [NEW] ACTION: jc to add clarify dependency on discovery mechanism
    for ISSUE-7 [recorded in
    [39]http://www.w3.org/2011/06/07-webtv-minutes.html#action02]
    [NEW] ACTION: Jean-Claude to add clarify dependency on discovery
    mechanism for ISSUE-7 [recorded in
    [40]http://www.w3.org/2011/06/07-webtv-minutes.html#action03]
    [NEW] ACTION: Jean-Claude to extend use case of ISSUE-15 by creating
    a new use case for pull scenario [recorded in
    [41]http://www.w3.org/2011/06/07-webtv-minutes.html#action07]

    [End of minutes]
      _________________________________________________________


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Received on Tuesday, 7 June 2011 18:28:50 UTC

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