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Re: Closed non-embedded content???

From: Peter Korn <peter.korn@oracle.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 13:14:13 -0700
Message-ID: <5081B495.6050207@oracle.com>
To: Kiran Kaja <kkaja@adobe.com>
CC: Loïc Martínez Normand <loic@fi.upm.es>, Michael Pluke <Mike.Pluke@castle-consult.com>, "public-wcag2ict-tf@w3.org" <public-wcag2ict-tf@w3.org>, "stf416@etsi.org" <stf416@etsi.org>

What you are really talking about is how a system closed to screen 
reading AT, but which provides its own self-voicing functionality, deals 
with certain media.  And how agencies deal with this situation.

Clearly we need to capture somewhere that a federal agency shall not 
procure (or produce and provide to the public) eBooks with a "do not 
speak flag" set on them.  That is the fundamental issue.

Since with eBooks we are talking about non-embedded content, we need to 
capture this as an issue/property of non-embedded content.  While you 
could fix this in some sense in the eBook (e.g. "don't purchase eBooks 
which respect a "do not speak" flag), such a remedy would be 
inappropriately broad.

I wonder if this is simply an example of a necessary provision that 
doesn't come directly out of WCAG A/AA (since you don't have DRM-encoded 
HTML!).  So perhaps this needs a remedy tailored to DRM situations - a 
provision noting that no content shall be acquired / disseminated / used 
where such content expressly disables accessibility features (such as 
the "no not speak" flag of xyz format eBooks).


On 10/19/2012 12:36 PM, Kiran Kaja wrote:
> It appears as if we are trying to combine multiple issues.
> First, here is a clear and simple definition of closed functionality 
> from the Mandate 376 EN.
> *closed functionality:* characteristics that prevent a user from 
> attaching or installing assistive technology
> for the purposes of clause 10 in the Mandate 376, we are only 
> concerned with non-web non-embedded content. You wouldn't attach or 
> install assistive technology directly to a DRM protected content. If 
> you do not have the necessary permissions to access the DRM content, 
> you will not be able to access the content irrespective of you being 
> an assistive technology user or not.
> Now, there is an ebook platform in the market (Kindle) which has a 
> specific flag to disable TTS output. but this TTS flag has nothing to 
> do with assistive technology. The TTS/voice output feature is a 
> feature provided by the platform. You *cannot* attach assistive 
> technology to either the non-embedded content or the user agent on 
> this platform. So, the user agent is closed functionality. And perhaps 
> one can say that the content on this platform may potentially also be 
> closed. But in this context, the content has no use or application 
> outside the user agent. In other words, no user can do anything with 
> this content outside of the platform.
> Both Adobe Digital Editions on Mac and PC and iBooks on the iOS 
> platform are used to read protected ebooks. If you have the necessary 
> permissions to access the content on these platforms, they let you use 
> your assistive technology to read those books. On the other hand, 
> using Kindle as an example for closed non-embedded content doesn't 
> make sense as the Kindle platform itself is closed.
> Let us not confuse/combine "attaching or installing assistive 
> technology" and "TTS Flag". They are two different issues. And as per 
> the definition of closed functionality in the EN, we are only 
> concerned with "attaching or installing assistive technology".
> Regards,
> Kiran Kaja
> Adobe Systems
> *From:*Loïc Martínez Normand [mailto:loic@fi.upm.es]
> *Sent:* 19 October 2012 19:31
> *To:* Peter Korn
> *Cc:* Michael Pluke; public-wcag2ict-tf@w3.org
> *Subject:* Re: Closed non-embedded content???
> Hi,
> Sorry for being late in this thread, but here are my "two cents".
> I agree with Gregg and Peter. The non-web non-embedded content can be 
> closed (by DRM) to accessibility features such as speech output. Of 
> course it is the user agent who will make this "closure" happen. But 
> if the content has the "voice output disabled" bit, then the user 
> agent will be unable to provide non-visual access (of course, if the 
> user agent behaves properly according to DRM). And, as Peter says, 
> this is a "classical" example of "closed by policy".
> To me this is not different to interactivity. Non-web non-embedded 
> content, according to our definition, can be interactive, but the 
> interactivity will only happen when the user agent is presenting the 
> content.
> Best regards,
> Loïc
> On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 7:15 PM, Peter Korn <peter.korn@oracle.com 
> <mailto:peter.korn@oracle.com>> wrote:
> Mike,
> The DRM examples that Gregg raises in this thread arise from a 
> combination of the document & the user agent.  In order for the DRM to 
> work, the document (and any transmission of the document) needs to be 
> encrypted, with the user agent doing the decryption.  And the 
> situations in which the DRM does certain types of decryption depends 
> upon the document.
> Perhaps this is more "closed by policy" (of the rights holder), but 
> the "closing bit or flag" is within the document.
> Peter
> On 10/19/2012 5:48 AM, Michael Pluke wrote:
>     Is there such a thing as non-Web non-embedded content that is closed?
>     Can anyone think of any examples? We need to answer this question
>     urgently. In all the cases that we can think of it is the device
>     (i.e. the user agent) that is closed.
>     Best regards
>     Mike
> -- 
> Description: Oracle <http://www.oracle.com/>
> Peter Korn | Accessibility Principal
> Phone: +1 650 5069522 <tel:+1%20650%205069522>
> 500 Oracle Parkway | Redwood City, CA 94065
> Description: Green Oracle <http://www.oracle.com/commitment>Oracle is 
> committed to developing practices and products that help protect the 
> environment
> -- 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Loïc Martínez-Normand
> DLSIIS. Facultad de Informática
> Universidad Politécnica de Madrid
> Campus de Montegancedo
> 28660 Boadilla del Monte
> Madrid
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> e-mail: loic@fi.upm.es <mailto:loic@fi.upm.es>
> tfno: +34 91 336 74 11
> ---------------------------------------------------------------

Oracle <http://www.oracle.com>
Peter Korn | Accessibility Principal
Phone: +1 650 5069522 <tel:+1%20650%205069522>
500 Oracle Parkway | Redwood City, CA 94065
Green Oracle <http://www.oracle.com/commitment> Oracle is committed to 
developing practices and products that help protect the environment
Received on Friday, 19 October 2012 20:17:21 UTC

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