W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-wcag2ict-tf@w3.org > July 2012

Re: ACTION-23 - WCAG response to request to modify intent for 1.3.1 Info and Relationships

From: Andi Snow-Weaver <andisnow@us.ibm.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 20:32:03 -0500
To: Gregg Vanderheiden <gv@trace.wisc.edu>
Cc: "Crowell, Pierce" <Pierce.Crowell@ssa.gov>, "'public-wcag2ict-tf@w3.org'" <public-wcag2ict-tf@w3.org>
Message-ID: <OF4DFE124C.12309C22-ON86257A37.00085CD0-86257A37.00086DC3@us.ibm.com>
I think this is close enough to the wording we approved that we can just
decide tomorrow to send it up to WCAG for another try.

Andi




From:	Gregg Vanderheiden <gv@trace.wisc.edu>
To:	"Crowell, Pierce" <Pierce.Crowell@ssa.gov>
Cc:	"'public-wcag2ict-tf@w3.org'" <public-wcag2ict-tf@w3.org>
Date:	07/09/2012 05:52 PM
Subject:	Re: ACTION-23 - WCAG response to request to modify intent for
            1.3.1  Info and  Relationships



I'm good with this.  In fact I think it is an improvement - thanks Pierce.

I think that this is straightforward enough that it could be handled just a
part of tomorrows meeting since it has gone to the list and everyone has
had a chance to read it.

We can put to survey though too if people feel warranted and it won't
jeopardize getting it to WCAG this week  (ooooo  which it would if we wait
til Friday)  hmmmm

Up to the chairs to call it.

But nice job Andi then Pierce.


Gregg
--------------------------------------------------------
Gregg Vanderheiden Ph.D.
Director Trace R&D Center
Professor Industrial & Systems Engineering
and Biomedical Engineering
University of Wisconsin-Madison

Co-Director, Raising the Floor - International
and the Global Public Inclusive Infrastructure Project
http://Raisingthefloor.org   ---   http://GPII.net









On Jul 9, 2012, at 11:27 PM, Crowell, Pierce wrote:

      While that helps, it is the placement that is the issue.  I can live
      with it, but I made one slight edit for reading relief (removed
      “ITEMS THAT SHARE A COMMON CHARACTERISTIC ARE ORGANIZED INTO A” and
      changed a couple other words).

      Should we post this to the survey or just discuss at tomorrow’s
      meeting (Note: I may not be able to attend)?

      Pierce

      Sighted users perceive structure AND RELATIONSHIPS through various
      visual cues — headings are often in a larger, bold font separated
      from paragraphs by blank lines; list items are preceded by a bullet
      and perhaps indented; paragraphs are separated by a blank line; form
      fields may be positioned as groups that share text labels; a
      different background color may be used to indicate that several items
      are related to each other; words that have special status are
      indicated by changing the font family and /or bolding, italicizing,
      or underlining them; TABLES ORGANIZE ITEMS WITH ROWS AND COLUMNS
      WHERE THE RELATIONSHIP OF CELLS SHARING THE SAME ROW OR COLUMN AND
      THE RELATIONSHIP OF EACH CELL TO ITS ROW AND/OR COLUMN HEADER ARE
      NECESSARY FOR COMPREHENSION; and so on. Having these structures and
      relationships programmatically determined or available in text
      ensures that information important for comprehension will be
      perceivable by all.



      From: Andi Snow-Weaver [mailto:andisnow@us.ibm.com]
      Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 4:40 PM
      To: Crowell, Pierce
      Cc: 'public-wcag2ict-tf@w3.org'
      Subject: RE: ACTION-23 - WCAG response to request to modify intent
      for 1.3.1 Info and Relationships



      Pierce,

      We don't have to accept this. We can try again.

      How about this?

      Sighted users perceive structure AND RELATIONSHIPS through various
      visual cues — headings are often in a larger, bold font separated
      from paragraphs by blank lines; list items are preceded by a bullet
      and perhaps indented; paragraphs are separated by a blank line; form
      fields may be positioned as groups that share text labels; a
      different background color may be used to indicate that several items
      are related to each other; words that have special status are
      indicated by changing the font family and /or bolding, italicizing,
      or underlining them; ITEMS THAT SHARE A COMMON CHARACTERISTIC ARE
      ORGANIZED INTO A TABLE WHERE THE RELATIONSHIP OF CELLS SHARING THE
      SAME ROW OR COLUMN AND THE RELATIONSHIP OF EACH CELL TO ITS ROW
      AND/OR COLUMN HEADER ARE NECESSARY FOR UNDERSTANDING; and so on.
      Having this structure and these relationships programmatically
      determined or available in text ensures that information important
      for comprehension will be perceivable by all.

      Andi


                                                        
       <image001.gi                                     
       f>                                               
                                                        
       <image002.gi       Andi Snow-Weaver              
       f>                 Accessibility Standards       
                          Program Manager               
                          Human Ability & Accessibility 
                          Center                        
                                                        
                          Tel: +1-720-663-2789          
                          Email: andisnow@us.ibm.com    
                                                        
       <image001.gi                                     
       f>                                               
                                                        







      <image003.gif>"Crowell, Pierce" ---07/09/2012 03:20:54 PM---If they
      were repetitive, then they selected the lesser of the two.  The
      result is now we lost the on

      From: "Crowell, Pierce" <Pierce.Crowell@ssa.gov>
      To: "'public-wcag2ict-tf@w3.org'" <public-wcag2ict-tf@w3.org>
      Date: 07/09/2012 03:20 PM
      Subject: RE: ACTION-23 - WCAG response to request to modify intent
      for 1.3.1  Info and  Relationships




      If they were repetitive, then they selected the lesser of the two.
      The result is now we lost the only mention of the word “table” in all
      of the INTENT sections.  At least we still have his cousin “tabular.”

      I’m easy on closing AI-23 if we are willing to add “row, column, and
      header” to the examples in 4.1.2.  I really wanted it in 1.3.1, but
      if there is no clarity there, and I see no added clarity in this
      outcome, then a reference in the examples list is desired.

      Pierce

      From: Andi Snow-Weaver [mailto:andisnow@us.ibm.com]
      Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 3:25 PM
      To: public-wcag2ict-tf@w3.org
      Subject: ACTION-23 - WCAG response to request to modify intent for
      1.3.1 Info and Relationships



      Last week the WCAG working group reviewed our request to modify the
      intent for 1.3.1 as follows:
            Replace the current last paragraph which reads:

            There may also be cases where it may be a judgment call about
            what information should appear in text and what would need to
            be directly associated. However, wherever possible it is
            necessary for the information to be programmatically determined
            rather than providing a text description before encountering
            the table.

            With the following paragraphs  ( a new one plus the paragraph
            above slightly edited)

            Structure and relationships are often visually perceivable. For
            instance, when information is presented in tabular form the
            visual structure and relationship of one cell to another, the
            structure and relationship of one cell to all the cells sharing
            the same row or column, and the relationship of one cell to the
            row and/or column header are necessary for understanding
            information in a table. Having this structure and these
            relationships programmatically determined or available in text
            ensures that information important for comprehension will be
            perceivable to all.

            There may also be cases where it may be a judgment call as to
            whether the relationships should be programmatically determined
            or be presented in text. However, when technologies support
            programmatic relationships, it is strongly encouraged that
            information and relationships be programmatically determined
            rather than described in text.

      Per the survey results and the group discussion, the working group
      feels that the first paragraph is repetitive of what is already in
      the second paragraph. Instead of adding our first proposed paragraph,
      they agreed to this resolution:
            RESOLUTION: 2nd paragraph gets replaced with “Sighted users
            perceive structure through various visual cues — headings are
            often in a larger, bold font separated from paragraphs by blank
            lines; list items are preceded by a bullet and perhaps
            indented; paragraphs are separated by a blank line; items that
            share a common characteristic are organized into tabular rows
            and columns with their headers; form fields may be positioned
            as groups that share text labels; a different background color
            may be used to indicate that several items are related to each
            other; words that have special status are indicated by changing
            the font family and /or bolding, italicizing, or underlining
            them and so on. HAVING THIS STRUCTURE AND THESE RELATIONSHIPS
            PROGRAMMATICALLY DETERMINED OR AVAILABLE IN TEXT ENSURES THAT
            INFORMATION IMPORTANT FOR COMPREHENSION WILL BE PERCEIVABLE TO
            ALL.
      With regard to the second paragraph of our proposal, they agreed to
      this resolution:
            RESOLUTION: replace the seventh paragraph with "There may also
            be cases where it may be a judgment call as to whether the
            relationships should be programmatically determined or be
            presented in text. However, when technologies support
            programmatic relationships, it is strongly encouraged that
            information and relationships be programmatically determined
            rather than described in text.
      If there are no objections, with these WCAG resolutions, we can close
      ACTION-23 tomorrow.

      Andi



graycol.gif
(image/gif attachment: graycol.gif)

Received on Tuesday, 10 July 2012 01:32:44 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Tuesday, 10 July 2012 01:32:45 GMT