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RE: 2.5.5

From: Slatin, John M <john_slatin@austin.utexas.edu>
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 12:02:17 -0600
Message-ID: <6EED8F7006A883459D4818686BCE3B3B057BB7D2@MAIL01.austin.utexas.edu>
To: "David MacDonald" <befree@magma.ca>, "Gregg Vanderheiden" <gv@trace.wisc.edu>
Cc: <public-wcag-teamc@w3.org>
And one more purely editorial change:
 
Delete the word "that" in the item below:
 
<blockquote>
--if the content is multimedia, live audio-only or live video-only
content, or if the content that is primarily intended to create a
specific sensory experience, then text alternatives at least identify
the non-text content with a descriptive text label.  
</blockquote>
 
John
 

"Good design is accessible design." 

Dr. John M. Slatin, Director
Accessibility Institute
University of Texas at Austin
FAC 248C
1 University Station G9600
Austin, TX 78712
ph 512-495-4288, fax 512-495-4524
email jslatin@mail.utexas.edu
Web  <http://www.ital.utexas.edu/>
http://www.utexas.edu/research/accessibility 

-----Original Message-----
From: David MacDonald [mailto:befree@magma.ca] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 11:55 AM
To: Slatin, John M; 'Gregg Vanderheiden'
Cc: public-wcag-teamc@w3.org
Subject: RE: 2.5.5



Here's an amendment with Andi's correction.

 

 

For all non-text content at least one of the following is true:

 

For non-text content that presents information:

 

-- if the information can be presented in text, then text alternatives

present the same information as the non-text content.

 

--if the content is multimedia, live audio-only or live video-only
content, or if the content that is primarily intended to create a
specific sensory

experience, then text alternatives at least identify the non-text
content with a descriptive text label. 

 

--if the information cannot be presented in text or if the non-text

content accepts user input, then:

 

a) If the non-text content is a test or exercise that must be presented

in non-text format, then text alternatives at least identify the

non-text content with a descriptive text label. In addition, if the

purpose of the test is to confirm that content is being operated by a

person rather than a computer, then multiple versions are provided to

accommodate multiple different disabilities.

 

b) otherwise text alternatives at least identify the purpose of the

non-text content.

 

For non-text content that does not present information (decorative,
formatting, invisible), text alternatives communicate to assistive
technology that the content should not be rendered.

 

 

access empowers people...

        ...barriers disable them...

 

www.eramp.com


  _____  


From: Slatin, John M [mailto:john_slatin@austin.utexas.edu] 
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 10:10 PM
To: David MacDonald; Gregg Vanderheiden; Andi Snow-Weaver
Cc: Becky Gibson; Michael Cooper; Cynthia Shelly; Sofia Celic;
Christophe Strobbe; public-wcag-teamc@w3.org
Subject: RE: 2.5.5

 

Thanks, David!

 

One more small tweak:

 

<q>For content is multimedia, live audio-only or live video-only
content,</q>

 

should be

 

If content ... etc. Or else it should be "For content that is ..."

 

John

 

John

 

 

 

"Good design is accessible design." 

Dr. John M. Slatin, Director
Accessibility Institute
University of Texas at Austin
FAC 248C
1 University Station G9600
Austin, TX 78712
ph 512-495-4288, fax 512-495-4524
email jslatin@mail.utexas.edu
Web  <http://www.ital.utexas.edu/>
http://www.utexas.edu/research/accessibility 

-----Original Message-----
From: David MacDonald [mailto:befree@magma.ca] 
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 8:40 PM
To: Slatin, John M; 'Gregg Vanderheiden'; 'Andi Snow-Weaver'
Cc: 'Becky Gibson'; 'Michael Cooper'; 'Cynthia Shelly'; 'Sofia Celic';
'Christophe Strobbe'; public-wcag-teamc@w3.org
Subject: RE: 2.5.5

Thanks John

 

I actually had just made an adjustment to someone else's proposal and I
didn't notice the missing decorative clause. I think it should go in
under the exceptions section. The rewording below has your amendments:

 

 

For all non-text content at least one of the following is true:

 

For non-text content that presents information:

 

-- if the information can be presented in text, then text alternatives

present the same information as the non-text content.

 

-- if the information cannot be presented in text or if the non-text

content accepts user input, then:

 

a) If the non-text content is a test or exercise that must be presented

in non-text format, then text alternatives at least identify the

non-text content with a descriptive text label. In addition, if the

purpose of the test is to confirm that content is being operated by a

person rather than a computer, then multiple versions are provided to

accommodate multiple different disabilities.

 

b) otherwise text alternatives at least identify the purpose of the

non-text content.

 

Exceptions:

 

For content is multimedia, live audio-only or live video-only content,

or content that is primarily intended to create a specific sensory

experience, then text alternatives at least identify the non-text

content with a descriptive text label.

 

If non-text content is pure decoration, or used only for visual
formatting, or if it is not presented to users, then it is implemented
such that it can be ignored by assistive technology.

 

 

 

 

access empowers people...

        ...barriers disable them...

 

www.eramp.com

-----Original Message-----
From: public-wcag-teamc-request@w3.org
[mailto:public-wcag-teamc-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Slatin, John M
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 6:15 PM
To: David MacDonald; Gregg Vanderheiden; Andi Snow-Weaver
Cc: Becky Gibson; Michael Cooper; Cynthia Shelly; Sofia Celic;
Christophe Strobbe; public-wcag-teamc@w3.org
Subject: RE: 2.5.5

 

 

Thanks, David.  I have a question and a couple of observations.

 

First, the question: the provision for what we useed to call

"decorative" non-text content seems to be missing. Was that deliberate?

If so, I disagree! And ask that it be reinstated. Otherwise we'll get

people dutifully providing "spacer image" as alt text for every 1x1

.gif...

 

And now for the concern. This is about the Turing test exception (so not

directly related to David's post). It reads as follows:

 

<blockquote>

...In addition, if the purpose of the test is to confirm that content is

being operated by a person rather than a computer, then different forms

are provided to accommodate multiple different disabilities.

</blockquote>

 

"multiple forms" might be misunderstood as requiring the use of forms. I

think the intent, however, is to require different *versions* of the

test, with each aimed at different needs? So I would recommend something

like "multiple versions of the test" for clarity's sake.

 

This would also match up better with "multiple different disabilities,"

I think.

 

John

 

"Good design is accessible design."

 

Dr. John M. Slatin, Director 

Accessibility Institute

University of Texas at Austin 

FAC 248C 

1 University Station G9600 

Austin, TX 78712 

ph 512-495-4288, fax 512-495-4524 

email jslatin@mail.utexas.edu 

Web http://www.utexas.edu/research/accessibility 

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: public-wcag-teamc-request@w3.org

[mailto:public-wcag-teamc-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of David MacDonald

Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 4:21 PM

To: 'Gregg Vanderheiden'; 'Andi Snow-Weaver'

Cc: 'Becky Gibson'; 'Michael Cooper'; 'Cynthia Shelly'; 'Sofia Celic';

'Christophe Strobbe'; public-wcag-teamc@w3.org

Subject: RE: 2.5.5

 

 

 

 

How about this friendly amendment:

 

 

 

For all non-text content at least one of the following is true:

 

For non-text content that presents information:

 

-- if the information can be presented in text, then text alternatives

present the same information as the non-text content.

 

-- if the information cannot be presented in text or if the non-text

content accepts user input, then

 

a) If the non-text content is a test or exercise that must be presented

in non-text format, then text alternatives at least identify the

non-text content with a descriptive text label. In addition, if the

purpose of the test is to confirm that content is being operated by a

person rather than a computer, then different forms are provided to

accommodate multiple different disabilities.

 

b) otherwise text alternatives at least identify the purpose of the

non-text content.

 

Exceptions:

For content is multimedia, live audio-only or live video-only content,

or content that is primarily intended to create a specific sensory

experience, then text alternatives at least identify the non-text

content with a descriptive text label.

 

 

 

-----------------------------------------

\

Gregg,

 

This almost works. But I don't think that multimedia, live audio only,

or live vido only are non-text content that cannot be presented in text.

 

Andi

 

 

You might move the last (3rd) bullet up to the third place and put the

exceptions at the bottom.   Otherwise the third button is an orphan.

 

This is the only one with exceptions....

 

Hmmmmm

 

As I look at this more I wonder about the construction.  The exceptions

are not really exceptions but other conditions.... with requirements.

 

 

 

Maybe something like:

 

For all non-text content at least one of the following is true:

 

For non-text content that presents information:

 

-- if the information can be presented in text, then text alternatives

present the same information as the non-text content.

 

-- if the information cannot be presented in text or if the non-text

content accepts user input, then

 

a) if the content is multimedia, live audio-only or live video-only

content, or content that is primarily intended to create a specific

sensory experience, then text alternatives at least identify the

non-text content with a descriptive text label.

 

b) If the non-text content is a test or exercise that must be presented

in non-text format, then text alternatives at least identify the

non-text content with a descriptive text label. In addition, if the

purpose of the test is to confirm that content is being operated by a

person rather than a computer, then different forms are provided to

accommodate multiple different disabilities.

 

c) otherwise text alternatives at least identify the purpose of the

non-text content.

 

-- if the non-text content that does not present information

(decorative, formatting, invisible), text alternatives communicate to

assistive technology that the content should not be rendered.

 

 

 

 

This is hierarchical in nature which I don't like.  But it does reflect

the nature of this.

 

 

Anyone see another way?

 

 

Gregg

 -- ------------------------------

Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.

 

 

 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: public-wcag-teamc-request@w3.org 

> [mailto:public-wcag-teamc-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of David MacDonald

> Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 1:31 PM

> To: 'Andi Snow-Weaver'

> Cc: 'Becky Gibson'; 'Michael Cooper'; 'Cynthia Shelly'; 'Sofia Celic';

 

> 'Christophe Strobbe'; public-wcag-teamc@w3.org

> Subject: 2.5.5

> 

> 

> 

> Hi Folks

> 

> Andi and I had a conference call this morning and we came up with a 

> proposal for issue. 958, SC 1.1.1

> 

> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/issue-tracking/viewdata_indivi

> dual.php?id=95

> 8

> 

> or http://tinyurl.com/2fwxdz

> 

> 

> 

> I ran it by Gregg and he thinks it works also.

> 

> Cheers

> David MacDonald

> 

> 

> 

> 

 

 

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