W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-wai-evaltf@w3.org > June 2012

RE: RE: Proposal for next Questionnaire (was: Re: A question about Step 4.b: Use WCAG 2.0 Techniques Where Possible)

From: Velleman, Eric <evelleman@bartimeus.nl>
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 14:46:13 +0000
To: "detlev.fischer@testkreis.de" <detlev.fischer@testkreis.de>, "shadi@w3.org" <shadi@w3.org>
CC: "public-wai-evaltf@w3.org" <public-wai-evaltf@w3.org>
Message-ID: <3D063CE533923349B1B52F26312B0A4683CBC5@s107ma.bart.local>
Hello Detlev,

Hope I do not only speak for myself if I say that I appreciate your input and comments very much. Please keep them coming ;-)

Kindest regards,

Eric


________________________________________
Van: detlev.fischer@testkreis.de [detlev.fischer@testkreis.de]
Verzonden: woensdag 27 juni 2012 15:52
Aan: Velleman, Eric; shadi@w3.org
CC: public-wai-evaltf@w3.org
Onderwerp: Re: RE: Proposal for next Questionnaire (was: Re: A question about Step 4.b: Use WCAG 2.0 Techniques Where Possible)

Hi Eric,

that sounds great, thanks! (And sorry for being a pest at times.)

Best regards,
Detlev

----- Original Message -----
From: evelleman@bartimeus.nl
To: detlev.fischer@testkreis.de, shadi@w3.org
Date: 27.06.2012 15:30:25
Subject: RE: Proposal for next Questionnaire (was: Re: A question about Step 4.b: Use WCAG 2.0 Techniques Where Possible)


> Hi Detlev,
>
> We can discuss it this week on the list and finalize it in the call next week.
> I can put it into the next questionnaire. Lets discuss this under other issues in the next call. Is that ok?
> Kindest regards,
>
> Eric
>
> =========================
> Eric Velleman
> Technisch directeur
> Stichting Accessibility
> Universiteit Twente
>
> Oudenoord 325,
> 3513EP Utrecht (The Netherlands);
> Tel: +31 (0)30 - 2398270
> www.accessibility.nl / www.wabcluster.org / www.econformance.eu /
> www.game-accessibility.com/ www.eaccessplus.eu
>
> Lees onze disclaimer: www.accessibility.nl/algemeen/disclaimer
> Accessibility is Member van het W3C
> =========================
>
> ________________________________________
> Van: detlev.fischer@testkreis.de [detlev.fischer@testkreis.de]
> Verzonden: woensdag 27 juni 2012 14:00
> Aan: shadi@w3.org
> CC: public-wai-evaltf@w3.org
> Onderwerp: Proposal for next Questionnaire (was: Re: A question about Step 4.b: Use WCAG 2.0 Techniques Where Possible)
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> Shadi's reply to my question regarding Step 4.b: "Use WCAG 2.0 Techniques Where Possible" suggests that the point I raised is beyond the scope of WCAG-EM. The lack of further answers indicates that this might be consensus in our group.
>
> To clarify and clearly delimit this scope of WCAG-EM, I suggest the three statements below that might be used in at the beginning of Step 4: "Audit the Selected Sample". (I also thought whether they might fit into step Step 1.e: "Define the Techniques to be Used (Optional)" but the aim of this section is different.
>
> Eric,  maybe we can put these statements (as they are, or in modified form) in the next questionnaire to see if this is ideed consensus?
>
> "(1) WCAG-EM provides no details regarding the application of Sufficient Techniques in conformance evaluation beyond the enumeration of options in the WCAG Quickref. Any Sufficient Technique (and any technique that is demonstrably sufficient for the relevant context of use) may be used in whatever combination as long as all page content satisfies the respective Success Criterion."
>
> "(2) WCAG-EM provides no guidance beyond what is stated in the normative section of WCAG 2.0 as to whether web content satisfies of fails a particular Success Criterion. While the Sufficient Techniques are informative only, their examples and test procedures should be used as guidance and referenced when rating web content."
>
> "(3) Success Criteria may be met either by WCAG's documented Sufficient Techniques or by any author-provided technique that demonstrably satisfies the Success Criterion AND has sufficient accessibility support for the users of the site or application under test."
>
> I hope that these statements encapsulate the status quo. If they do not, I would be glad if you could suggest modifications.
>
> Just to be clear, I can live with this position. In my view, it just moves many of the issues critical for a valid a11y assessment outside the scope of WCAG-EM. However, this may be better then engaging in protracted (potentially endless) arguments about the details of evaluation (should some content be allowed to pass or should it fail).
>
> Best, Detlev
>
>
>
> --
> Detlev Fischer
> testkreis c/o feld.wald.wiese
> Borselstraße 3-7 (im Hof), 22765 Hamburg
>
> Mobil +49 (0)1577 170 73 84
> Tel +49 (0)40 439 10 68-3
> Fax +49 (0)40 439 10 68-5
>
> http://www.testkreis.de
> Beratung, Tests und Schulungen für barrierefreie Websites
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: shadi@w3.org
> To: detlev.fischer@testkreis.de
> Date: 26.06.2012 11:29:44
> Subject: Re: A question about Step 4.b: Use WCAG 2.0 Techniques Where Possible
>
>
>> Hi Detlev,
>>
>> To your question:
>>> Should WCAG-EM explicitly address this issue? If so, how?
>>
>> No, I don't think WCAG-EM should address this explicitly as these are
>> interpretations of the Success Criteria.
>>
>> Having said that, I encourage people to send feedback to WCAG Working
>> Group so that issues can be identified and fixed (likely through the
>> Techniques or Understanding documents).
>>
>> Maybe in the phase where we test our methodology in practice we could
>> also collect these observations and send as a collective feedback from
>> Eval TF to the WCAG WG.
>>
>> Best,
>>   Shadi
>>
>>
>> On 26.6.2012 09:35, Detlev Fischer wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I'd like to hear your views regarding a particular problem when using
>>> Sufficient Techniques to check whether a page conforms.
>>>
>>> I take it that generally, the procedure might look like this:
>>>
>>> 1. Check if one of the numbered Sufficient Techniques (or options
>>> grouping techniques) has been used successfully
>>> 2. Check whether another (yet undocumented) Technique has been used AND
>>> can be deemed sufficient / AT-supported
>>> 3. Check if one of the Failures documented for that SC applies
>>>
>>> As we work through a page, there will often be situations where
>>> particular instances of content use one technique and other instances
>>> use a different technique. This is quite acceptable for images, links,
>>> form controls, etc.
>>>
>>> For some SC, however, the situation is more complex, and I would like to
>>> hear whether you think that mixing different techniques for meeting the
>>> SC on a page would also be OK in these cases. Two examples:
>>>
>>> 1.4.3 Contrast (Minimum)
>>> Most parts of text satisfy G18 (sufficient default contrast). Some other
>>> parts have insufficent contrast but satisfy the SC via Technique G174
>>> (style switcher). The switch may be far off the part of text triggering
>>> the need to activate it - for example, at the page start.
>>>
>>> 2.4.1 Bypass blocks
>>> Some sections can be bypassed by using skip links (G123), some other
>>> parts use (hidden) headings (H69), one submenu can be bypassed by being
>>> collapsible/expandable (SCR28)
>>>
>>> Especially in the second example the problem is obvious: there is no
>>> consistent way to bypass blocks, which could be quite irritating.
>>> However, all content can be bypassed using one or the other of
>>> documented sufficient techniques.
>>>
>>> Should WCAG-EM explicitly address this issue? If so, how?
>>>
>>> This is not a leading question. I am really uncertain about the best way
>>> to deal with this issue. I just feel it should not be down to personal
>>> evaluator preferences.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Detlev
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Shadi Abou-Zahra - http://www.w3.org/People/shadi/
>> Activity Lead, W3C/WAI International Program Office
>> Evaluation and Repair Tools Working Group (ERT WG)
>> Research and Development Working Group (RDWG)
>>
>
>


Received on Wednesday, 27 June 2012 14:46:51 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Friday, 8 March 2013 15:52:14 GMT