W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-wai-evaltf@w3.org > August 2012

Re: Accessibility Statements (was Re: Comments from Eval TF review)

From: RichardWarren <richard.warren@userite.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 20:24:50 +0100
Message-ID: <341A8623ED144E799D860CC54D5E645C@DaddyPC>
To: "Shadi Abou-Zahra" <shadi@w3.org>, "Peter Korn" <peter.korn@oracle.com>
Cc: "Eval TF" <public-wai-evaltf@w3.org>
Dear All,

Just to be clear, the W3C already describes a conformance claim at 
http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#conformance-claims.
W3C also provides guidance (understanding) for such claims at 
http://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/conformance.html#uc-conformance-claims-head.

The current discussion is about an accessibility statement. From many of the 
messages I get the impression that some people want to go beyond W3C's 
conformance statement with something that describes how and when any 
remedial actions will be taken (if appropriate). It is this extra stuff that 
I am not happy with. I would prefer it if section "3.5.2 Step 5.b: Provide 
an Accessibility Statement (Optional)", were written as

"3.5.2 Step 5.b: Provide an Accessibility Conformance Claim (Optional).
A conformance claim can be submitted in line with W3C guidance at 
http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#conformance-claims ",.

Regards
Richard

Conformance Claims (Optional)

Conformance is defined only for Web pages. However, a conformance claim may 
be made to cover one page, a series of pages, or multiple related Web pages.
Required Components of a Conformance Claim

Conformance claims are not required. Authors can conform to WCAG 2.0 without 
making a claim. However, if a conformance claim is made, then the 
conformance claim must include the following information:

    Date of the claim

    Guidelines title, version and URI "Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 
2.0 at http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-WCAG20-20081211/"

    Conformance level satisfied: (Level A, AA or AAA)

    A concise description of the Web pages, such as a list of URIs for which 
the claim is made, including whether subdomains are included in the claim.

    Note 1: The Web pages may be described by list or by an expression that 
describes all of the URIs included in the claim.

    Note 2: Web-based products that do not have a URI prior to installation 
on the customer's Web site may have a statement that the product would 
conform when installed.

    A list of the Web content technologies relied upon.

Note: If a conformance logo is used, it would constitute a claim and must be 
accompanied by the required components of a conformance claim listed above.
Optional Components of a Conformance Claim

In addition to the required components of a conformance claim above, 
consider providing additional information to assist users. Recommended 
additional information includes:

    A list of success criteria beyond the level of conformance claimed that 
have been met. This information should be provided in a form that users can 
use, preferably machine-readable metadata.

    A list of the specific technologies that are "used but not relied upon."

    A list of user agents, including assistive technologies that were used 
to test the content.

    Information about any additional steps taken that go beyond the success 
criteria to enhance accessibility.

    A machine-readable metadata version of the list of specific technologies 
that are relied upon.

    A machine-readable metadata version of the conformance claim.

Note 1: Refer to Understanding Conformance Claims for more information and 
example conformance claims.



-----Original Message----- 
From: Shadi Abou-Zahra
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 7:07 PM
To: Peter Korn
Cc: Eval TF
Subject: Re: Accessibility Statements (was Re: Comments from Eval TF review)

Hi Peter,

The intent of this section, "3.5.2 Step 5.b: Provide an Accessibility
Statement (Optional)", is precisely about accessibility statements to
declare that an evaluation has been carried out according to this W3C
methodology. It is not about accessibility statements in general.

Suggestions to better clarify the intent of this section are welcome.

Regards,
   Shadi


On 22.8.2012 18:19, Peter Korn wrote:
> Hi Shadi,
>
> I don't understand how this is any more within the scope of EvalTF than 
> the
> previous discussion involving a commitment to respond to (or fix) 
> accessibility
> issues.  Your proposed text isn't tied to the evaluation methodology in 
> any fashion.
>
> I can imagine that IF the Accessibility Statement (or frankly any public
> statement) explicitly referenced that the site was self-evaluated (or 
> hired
> someone else to evaluate it) following the W3C approved evaluation 
> methodology,
> then we might impose some conditions on that public statement.  But I 
> don't see
> how it is appropriate to say that if a site evaluates itself for 
> accessibility
> using a particular methodology (or worse, some 3rd party entity evaluates 
> that
> site using a particular methodology), that therefore a (potentially 
> already
> existing) Accessibility Statement must say anything in particular.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter
>
> On 8/22/2012 5:18 AM, Shadi Abou-Zahra wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> It seems that several people agree on not requiring specific timing for
>> removing issues that contradict a published accessibility statement.
>>
>> However, do we want to least require that such (optionally provided)
>> accessibility statements remain valid when they are published?
>>
>> How about replacing this current text:
>> [[
>> The website owner commits to removing any valid issues known to them 
>> within 10
>> business days;
>> ]]
>>
>> with this new text:
>> [[
>> The website owner commits to ensuring the accuracy and validity of the
>> accessibility statement;
>> ]]
>>
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Regards,
>>   Shadi
>>
>>
>> On 22.8.2012 10:03, Vivienne CONWAY wrote:
>>> Hi Peter and all
>>>
>>> I'm in agreement that it should not be in the scope of the EM. I was 
>>> replying
>>> to someone's question about open comment about the number of days to 
>>> allow a
>>> website owner to make corrections.  Thinking about it again, I think it 
>>> might
>>> be better to leave this out of the scope entirely, even though I 
>>> advocate
>>> providing such an accessibility page.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Vivienne L. Conway, B.IT(Hons), MACS CT, AALIA(cs)
>>> PhD Candidate & Sessional Lecturer, Edith Cowan University, Perth, W.A.
>>> Director, Web Key IT Pty Ltd.
>>> v.conway@ecu.edu.au<mailto:v.conway@ecu.edu.au>
>>> v.conway@webkeyit.com<mailto:v.conway@webkeyit.com>
>>> Mob: 0415 383 673
>>>
>>> This email is confidential and intended only for the use of the 
>>> individual or
>>> entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are 
>>> notified
>>> that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email is 
>>> strictly
>>> prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify me
>>> immediately by return email or telephone and destroy the original 
>>> message.
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Peter Korn [peter.korn@oracle.com]
>>> Sent: Friday, 17 August 2012 11:25 PM
>>> To: Vivienne CONWAY
>>> Cc: Shadi Abou-Zahra; Eval TF
>>> Subject: Re: Accessibility Statements (was Re: Comments from Eval TF 
>>> review)
>>>
>>> Vivienne,
>>>
>>> I appreciate very much your opinion, and your desire of what should be 
>>> in the
>>> accessibility statement (that every website should have).  As an
>>> accessibility advocate, I appreciate the effect that might have on 
>>> "holding
>>> website owners feet to the fire".
>>>
>>> However, I simply don't see that as being in the scope of EvalTF.
>>>
>>> There is no "compromise" here.  If the work is in scope, then we should 
>>> work
>>> on it.  But if the work isn't in scope...
>>>
>>>
>>> Peter
>>>
>>> On 8/17/2012 4:26 AM, Vivienne CONWAY wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Peter & TF
>>>
>>> I'm of the opinion that the methodology needs to address the issue of 
>>> how
>>> quickly identified problems are acted upon.  If there is an 
>>> accessibility
>>> statement (and personally I'm of the view that there should be one), it
>>> should state how the website owner intends to act upon problems 
>>> identified by
>>> the users.  I don't necessarily say that we should state '10' days, or 
>>> even
>>> '5' or '20'.  I think though that the website owner should be compelled 
>>> to
>>> respond within a certain number of days.  I agree that some changes as 
>>> we
>>> discussed, will take longer to fix in very large websites.
>>>
>>> Can we compromise and say that problems identified must be responded to
>>> within a number of days (maybe 10, maybe not), and that they will be 
>>> dealt
>>> with as quickly as possible, with the complainant kept apprised of the
>>> remediation efforts?
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Vivienne L. Conway, B.IT(Hons), MACS CT, AALIA(cs)
>>> PhD Candidate & Sessional Lecturer, Edith Cowan University, Perth, W.A.
>>> Director, Web Key IT Pty Ltd.
>>> v.conway@ecu.edu.au<mailto:v.conway@ecu.edu.au><mailto:v.conway@ecu.edu.au><mailto:v.conway@ecu.edu.au>
>>>
>>> v.conway@webkeyit.com<mailto:v.conway@webkeyit.com><mailto:v.conway@webkeyit.com><mailto:v.conway@webkeyit.com>
>>>
>>> Mob: 0415 383 673
>>>
>>> This email is confidential and intended only for the use of the 
>>> individual or
>>> entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are 
>>> notified
>>> that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email is 
>>> strictly
>>> prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify me
>>> immediately by return email or telephone and destroy the original 
>>> message.
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Peter Korn [peter.korn@oracle.com<mailto:peter.korn@oracle.com>]
>>> Sent: Thursday, 16 August 2012 11:41 PM
>>> To: Shadi Abou-Zahra
>>> Cc: Eval TF
>>> Subject: Re: Accessibility Statements (was Re: Comments from Eval TF 
>>> review)
>>>
>>> Shadi,
>>>
>>> I recognize that it is optional.  BUT... by spelling out what EvalTF 
>>> thinks
>>> it should contain, you are putting the weight of W3C behind it, creating 
>>> a
>>> sort of "sanctioned statement".  This means that a certain degree of 
>>> care is
>>> necessary in crafting what that "sanctioned statement" should be.  AND
>>> because - as you note - there are many statements out there presently, 
>>> the
>>> (apparently intended) effect of someone adopting the EvalTF methodology 
>>> is
>>> that they would HAVE to change their existing statement in order to 
>>> conform
>>> to EvalTF or to drop making any statement altogether (since EvalTF says 
>>> that
>>> if there is a statement, it shall be X).
>>>
>>> I think that is significantly coercive, and because of that, such an - 
>>> even
>>> optional - statement must not be prescriptive.
>>>
>>> Does that make sense?
>>>
>>>
>>> Peter
>>>
>>> On 8/16/2012 8:36 AM, Shadi Abou-Zahra wrote:
>>> Hi Peter,
>>>
>>> Providing an accessibility statement is optional. This means that any
>>> organization can continue to use its own procedures.
>>>
>>> The intent of this item is to avoid the many outdated and imprecise
>>> statements that are frequently found on the Web today.
>>>
>>> As discussed today, we agreed to open an issue to continue this 
>>> discussion
>>> after publication. It would help to see what wording you would like to 
>>> have
>>> changed before publication.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>    Shadi
>>>
>>>
>>> On 16.8.2012 16:48, Peter Korn wrote:
>>> Hi Shadi,
>>>
>>> I am very uncomfortable with the proposed text in "3.5.2 Step 5.b 
>>> Provide an
>>> Accessibility Statement (optional)".  I'm particularly uncomfortable 
>>> with the
>>> suggestion that the website owner must make a commitment to 
>>> address/respond/fix
>>> issues brought to their attention within any specific number of 
>>> (business) days
>>> as a condition of being an "Eval TF compliant accessibility statement". 
>>> I don't
>>> think the draft should be published with this text as it current is.
>>>
>>> I think it would be OK to enumerate a suggested set of topics to be 
>>> addressed in
>>> an optional accessibility statement (e.g. to suggest that an 
>>> accessibility
>>> statement speak to how the website owner will respond to issues brought 
>>> to their
>>> attention), but not more than that.
>>>
>>> Websites & companies may have accessibility statements already, and we 
>>> don't
>>> want to force them to change those statements or remove them in order to 
>>> adopt
>>> the EvalTF methodology.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Peter
>>>
>>> On 8/16/2012 6:39 AM, Shadi Abou-Zahra wrote:
>>> Dear Eval TF,
>>>
>>> Eric, Martijn, and I have been processing the comments from Eval TF on 
>>> the
>>> latest Editor Draft of 30 July 2012. Please review this by *Monday 20 
>>> August*
>>> and let us know if you have any comments or questions:
>>>   -
>>> <http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20120730><http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20120730><http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20120730><http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20120730>
>>>
>>> Most comments seem fairly straight-forward to address with some minor 
>>> tweaks
>>> and re-writes. Proposed resolutions for these are indicated in this
>>> disposition of comments.
>>>
>>> Other comments primarily related to editing and writing style. This 
>>> might be
>>> best done together with the Education and Outreach Working Group (EOWG) 
>>> who
>>> will start getting involved when we next publish. We propose opening an 
>>> issue
>>> for these comments to discuss them with EOWG.
>>>
>>> Finally, several comments will likely need further discussion by the 
>>> group
>>> before they can be resolved effectively. We propose opening an issue for 
>>> each
>>> of these rather than to hold up the publication.
>>>
>>> The editorial issues to be opened include:
>>>   - #2
>>> <http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20120730#c2><http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20120730#c2><http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20120730#c2><http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20120730#c2>
>>>   - #6
>>> <http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20120730#c6><http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20120730#c6><http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20120730#c6><http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20120730#c6>
>>>
>>> The substantive issues to be opened include:
>>>   - #5
>>> <http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20120730#c5><http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20120730#c5><http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20120730#c5><http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20120730#c5>
>>>   - #17
>>> <http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20120730#c17><http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20120730#c17><http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20120730#c17><http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20120730#c17>
>>>   - #32
>>> <http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20120730#c32><http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20120730#c32><http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20120730#c32><http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20120730#c32>
>>>   - #34
>>> <http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20120730#c34><http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20120730#c34><http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20120730#c34><http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20120730#c34>
>>>   - #35
>>> <http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20120730#c35><http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20120730#c35><http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20120730#c35><http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20120730#c35>
>>>
>>> During today's teleconference we will request opening these issues.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>    Shadi
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Oracle
>>> <http://www.oracle.com><http://www.oracle.com><http://www.oracle.com><http://www.oracle.com>
>>> Peter Korn | Accessibility Principal
>>> Phone: +1 650 5069522 <tel:+1%20650%205069522>
>>> 500 Oracle Parkway | Redwood City, CA 94065
>>> Green Oracle
>>> <http://www.oracle.com/commitment><http://www.oracle.com/commitment><http://www.oracle.com/commitment><http://www.oracle.com/commitment>
>>> Oracle is committed to
>>> developing practices and products that help protect the environment
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> [cid:part1.05080307.02080201@oracle.com]<http://www.oracle.com><http://www.oracle.com>
>>>
>>> Peter Korn | Accessibility Principal
>>> Phone: +1 650 5069522<tel:+1%20650%205069522>
>>> 500 Oracle Parkway | Redwood City, CA 94065
>>> [cid:part4.09000705.09050309@oracle.com]<http://www.oracle.com/commitment><http://www.oracle.com/commitment>
>>> Oracle is committed to developing practices and products that help 
>>> protect
>>> the environment
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> This e-mail is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you 
>>> must
>>> not disclose or use the information contained within. If you have 
>>> received it
>>> in error please return it to the sender via reply e-mail and delete any
>>> record of it from your system. The information contained within is not 
>>> the
>>> opinion of Edith Cowan University in general and the University accepts 
>>> no
>>> liability for the accuracy of the information provided.
>>>
>>> CRICOS IPC 00279B
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> [cid:part1.07000307.02010302@oracle.com]<http://www.oracle.com>
>>> Peter Korn | Accessibility Principal
>>> Phone: +1 650 5069522<tel:+1%20650%205069522>
>>> 500 Oracle Parkway | Redwood City, CA 94065
>>> [cid:part4.02010305.03060403@oracle.com]<http://www.oracle.com/commitment>
>>> Oracle is committed to developing practices and products that help 
>>> protect
>>> the environment
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> This e-mail is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you 
>>> must
>>> not disclose or use the information contained within. If you have 
>>> received it
>>> in error please return it to the sender via reply e-mail and delete any
>>> record of it from your system. The information contained within is not 
>>> the
>>> opinion of Edith Cowan University in general and the University accepts 
>>> no
>>> liability for the accuracy of the information provided.
>>>
>>> CRICOS IPC 00279B
>>>
>>
>
> --
> Oracle <http://www.oracle.com>
> Peter Korn | Accessibility Principal
> Phone: +1 650 5069522 <tel:+1%20650%205069522>
> 500 Oracle Parkway | Redwood City, CA 94065
> Green Oracle <http://www.oracle.com/commitment> Oracle is committed to
> developing practices and products that help protect the environment
>

-- 
Shadi Abou-Zahra - http://www.w3.org/People/shadi/
Activity Lead, W3C/WAI International Program Office
Evaluation and Repair Tools Working Group (ERT WG)
Research and Development Working Group (RDWG) 
Received on Wednesday, 22 August 2012 19:25:22 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Friday, 8 March 2013 15:52:14 GMT