W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-w3process@w3.org > October 2016

Re: Definition of a Member Consortium in section 2.1.2.1

From: J. Alan Bird <abird@w3.org>
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2016 10:22:37 -0400
To: chaals@yandex-team.ru, Stephen Zilles <szilles@adobe.com>, Virginia Fournier <vfournier@apple.com>
Cc: Jeff Jaffe <jeff@w3.org>, Stephen Zilles <steve@zilles.org>, "public-w3process@w3.org" <public-w3process@w3.org>, "ab@w3.org" <ab@w3.org>
Message-ID: <5f25ebe6-2b51-c0f6-3e2d-70259ee11ccf@w3.org>


On 10/11/2016 07:04, chaals@yandex-team.ru wrote:
> 10.10.2016, 23:56, "Stephen Zilles" <szilles@adobe.com>:
>>
>> Chaals,
>>
>> I think the change you suggest below (adding officers to paid staff) 
>> is a significant, un-reviewed change. Especaily, since for Member 
>> Consortia that have non-individual members, the 4 designated 
>> representatives are limited to official representatives of the 
>> organization (e.g. officers) that effectively removes the restriction 
>> to 4 such representatives if there are more than 4 officers. I 
>> suggest that we fix the issue you are concerned about in the next 
>> revision of the process and not make such a big change now.
>>
> Where does the limit of 4 come from?
This is a legacy number and has been there for at least the 5+ years 
I've been here.
> Why does a consortium need to *pay* people before they are eligible to 
> participate in W3C work, and how does this translate for the numerous 
> not-for-profit organisations who have been active members over more or 
> less the lifetime of W3C?
I'm not hung up on the *pay* aspect as long as they are official 
representatives of the organization vs. just a Member of the other 
Consortia.
> I had discussed this with Alan before proposing it. I do not think it 
> is a significant change, since it reflects actual practice, and as far 
> as I can tell the intent of the restrictions.
> cheers
>>
>> Steve Z
>>
>> *From:*chaals@yandex-team.ru <mailto:chaals@yandex-team.ru> 
>> [mailto:chaals@yandex-team.ru <mailto:chaals@yandex-team.ru>]
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 10, 2016 12:10 PM
>> *To:* Virginia Fournier <vfournier@apple.com 
>> <mailto:vfournier@apple.com>>; J.Alan Bird <abird@w3.org 
>> <mailto:abird@w3.org>>
>> *Cc:* Jeff Jaffe <jeff@w3.org <mailto:jeff@w3.org>>; Stephen Zilles 
>> <steve@zilles.org <mailto:steve@zilles.org>>; public-w3process@w3.org 
>> <mailto:public-w3process@w3.org>; ab@w3.org <mailto:ab@w3.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: Definition of a Member Consortium in section 2.1.2.1
>>
>> I've put a lightly edited version of the text into my draft, which I 
>> hope to have done by tomorrow. I also noted officers and staff get 
>> the rights - because there are consortia whose officers are all 
>> unpaid, but who participate substantially in work.
>>
>> cheers
>>
>> 10.10.2016, 20:35, "Virginia Fournier" <vfournier@apple.com 
>> <mailto:vfournier@apple.com>>:
>>
>>     Hi Chaals,
>>
>>     We want it to be clear that a corporation such as Apple would not
>>     be considered to be a “Member Consortium” because it has
>>     shareholders.  So we support the updated language.  If there’s
>>     another way to clarify this point, we’re open to considering it.
>>
>>     Best regards,
>>
>>     Virginia Fournier
>>
>>     Senior Standards Counsel
>>
>>      Apple Inc.
>>
>>     ☏669-227-9595
>>
>>     ✉︎ vmf@apple.com <mailto:vmf@apple.com>
>>
>>     On Oct 10, 2016, at 7:02 AM, J. Alan Bird <abird@w3.org
>>     <mailto:abird@w3.org>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>     On 10/10/2016 09:09, chaals@yandex-team.ru
>>     <mailto:chaals@yandex-team.ru> wrote:
>>
>>         The whole change proposal looks editorial to me.
>>
>>         Personally I hate it as over-legalistic, unnecessarily
>>         complex, and unnecessary given the fundamentals of process.
>>         But I was under the impression Alan had seen it and didn't
>>         see a substantive difference.
>>
>>     correct
>>
>>         10.10.2016, 14:40, "Jeff Jaffe" <jeff@w3.org>
>>         <mailto:jeff@w3.org>:
>>
>>             Steve,
>>
>>             The proposal to update the process vis-a-vis Member
>>             Consortia came from Alan Bird. Are you aware if he has
>>             reviewed David's proposal?
>>
>>             Jeff
>>
>>             On 10/10/2016 12:50 AM, Stephen Zilles wrote:
>>
>>                 We must decide on the proposal by David Singer that
>>                 we will replace the first paragraph of section
>>                 2.1.2.1 Membership Consortia which now reads,
>>
>>                 “If the Member is itself a consortium, user society,
>>                 or otherwise has members or sponsors, as described in
>>                 paragraph 5g of the Membership Agreement and
>>                 hereafter called a "Member Consortium" the rights and
>>                 privileges of W3C Membership granted by W3C Process
>>                 extend to the organization's paid staff and Advisory
>>                 Committee representative.”
>>
>>                 WITH
>>
>>                 ‘A “Member Consortium” means a consortium, user
>>                 society, or association
>>                 <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_association> of
>>                 two or more individuals,
>>                 <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individuals> companies
>>                 <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Companies>,
>>                 organizations
>>                 <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organizations> or
>>                 governments
>>                 <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government> (or any
>>                 combination of these entities) with the objective of
>>                 participating in a common activity or pooling their
>>                 resources to achieve a common goal (other than
>>                 participation in, or achieving certain goals in,
>>                 W3C).  A corporation does not qualify as a
>>                 “Consortium” merely because it has shareholders or
>>                 stockholders.  If it is not clear whether a
>>                 prospective Member qualifies as a Member Consortium,
>>                 the Director may reasonably make the determination.
>>                 For a Member Consortium, the rights and privileges of
>>                 W3C Membership described in the W3C Process Document
>>                 extend to the Member Consortium’s paid staff and
>>                 Advisory Committee representative.’
>>
>>                 to more clearly distinguish a Consortium from an
>>                 organization with shareholders (a.k.a. a company).
>>
>>                 Note, other changes to 2.1.2.1 have been suggested,
>>                 but this change is solely aimed at clarifying what
>>                 constitutes a Member Consortium. It does not change
>>                 the rights, privileges and responsibilities of such
>>                 organizations.
>>
>>                 Steve Z
>>
>>         -- 
>>
>>         Charles McCathie Nevile - web standards - CTO Office, Yandex
>>         chaals@yandex-team.ru <mailto:chaals@yandex-team.ru> - - -
>>         Find more at http://yandex.com <http://yandex.com/>
>>
>>
>>     -- 
>>
>>     J. Alan Bird
>>
>>     W3C Global Business Development Leader
>>
>>     office +1 617 253 7823  mobile +1 978 335 0537
>>
>>     abird@w3.org <mailto:abird@w3.org>   twitter @jalanbird
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> Charles McCathie Nevile - web standards - CTO Office, Yandex
>> chaals@yandex-team.ru <mailto:chaals@yandex-team.ru> - - - Find more 
>> at http://yandex.com <http://yandex.com/>
>>
> -- 
> Charles McCathie Nevile - web standards - CTO Office, Yandex
> chaals@yandex-team.ru - - - Find more at http://yandex.com

-- 
J. Alan Bird
W3C Global Business Development Leader
office +1 617 253 7823  mobile +1 978 335 0537
abird@w3.org   twitter @jalanbird
Received on Tuesday, 11 October 2016 14:22:47 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Tuesday, 11 October 2016 14:22:48 UTC