Re: Re-visiting how to charter WGs

On 8/20/2015 8:06 PM, David Singer wrote:
> Hi Harry
>
> I think we could improve the process, but I am not sure I agree with all the problems you cite.
>
>> On Aug 19, 2015, at 14:33 , Harry Halpin <hhalpin@w3.org> wrote:
>>
>> Currently, charters for new WGs are semi-shrouded in mystery. While the
>> AC is notified when chartering begins, there is no way for the community
>> itself to ask for a WG to be chartered without going through the W3C Staff.
> Sure, one can present the idea and a draft charter to the community. What stops you?

Exactly.

>
>> While sometimes this may be a good thing as the W3C staff successfully
>> charters WG in the best interest of the Web, but in some domains the W3C
>> staff is unqualified in terms of the modern Web (such as is often the
>> case in security, such as the demand for the Credentials CG to be a WG
>> [1])
> I actually don’t think it’s a good thing at all to assume we need staff expertise in every area the W3C is working on. In fact, most similar bodies explicitly don’t have technical staff.
>
>> or may have some other motivational structure for starting a new
>> WG:  For example, the current process allows W3C staff to run
>> 'skunkworks' research projects as Working Groups and for WGs that
>> industry and users are not interested in (or even against) to be
>> chartered, but a small persistent group of hobbyists (that may include
>> W3C staff) are pushing for.
> That’s what AC review is supposed to be for.

Exactly.

>    I agree, there is a small issue that we tend not to object (“I’ll let your group go ahead, and you’ll let mine”).
>
>> Currently we have set a higher-bar at AC voting - but would a new
>> transparent process help?
> Sure.  I think that PLH set a good example recently of community drafting (good). We could also make sure that the charters have less boilerplate and bumf and are shorter and more to the point.

+1

>
>> I'm not sure of the details, but it seems with the amount of activity in
>> CGs would provide empirical data, and there should be some objective
>> threshold involving commitment in terms of implementation and real users.
> I am increasingly moving towards “we don’t charter a WG until we have enough of a draft to indicate a spec. is at least possible, and likely to emerge alive”.
>
>> I would like to see this issue taken up by the CG and AB.
>>
>> This ask by the Credentials CG to be a WG in this blog post [1] and
>> their analysis [2] is a pretty good test-case. Without the W3C hat on, I
>> see a good case for standardizing vocabularies around health care or
>> education. I don't see much of a case here [3] for replicating the work
>> of OAuth, JOSE, FIDO, and then layering a somewhat incorrect mental
>> model of GPG with multi-origin key material (obviously a security and
>> privacy concern) on the top of the Web just because it uses RDF.
>>
>>           yours,
>>                 harry
>>
>> [1] https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__manu.sporny.org_2015_credentials-2Dvia-2Dw3c_&d=BQIFaQ&c=eEvniauFctOgLOKGJOplqw&r=lsCTiiScrfjO0gbgKpiPgw&m=PyU4KLaHb2tFwfVUS3mZd12xml260sQqx2GyenJRUHo&s=Blwq-ufrzuhCmDv3_4DJ01VAOTk9fXMM5HZpdNFK14g&e=
>> [2] https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__manu.sporny.org_2015_credentials-2Dretrospective_&d=BQIFaQ&c=eEvniauFctOgLOKGJOplqw&r=lsCTiiScrfjO0gbgKpiPgw&m=PyU4KLaHb2tFwfVUS3mZd12xml260sQqx2GyenJRUHo&s=v0WVL8Wc36EwGED5LBpQ2j6_LRL8ti3mx82jGi72fzY&e=
>> [3] https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__opencreds.org_specs_source_identity-2Dcredentials_&d=BQIFaQ&c=eEvniauFctOgLOKGJOplqw&r=lsCTiiScrfjO0gbgKpiPgw&m=PyU4KLaHb2tFwfVUS3mZd12xml260sQqx2GyenJRUHo&s=GV8d1CRw7zR_Zq2DxxZYvc8hHHgbFjjnWMnG3b0TlBs&e=
>>
>>
>>
>>
> David Singer
> Manager, Software Standards, Apple Inc.
>
>

Received on Friday, 21 August 2015 00:33:07 UTC