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Re: Issue-140: The description of the Team in Section 2.2

From: Jeff Jaffe <jeff@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 15:47:13 -0500
Message-ID: <5463C751.40402@w3.org>
To: chaals@yandex-team.ru, Stephen Zilles <szilles@adobe.com>, "public-w3process@w3.org" <public-w3process@w3.org>

On 11/12/2014 7:40 AM, chaals@yandex-team.ru wrote:
> 12.11.2014, 15:21, "Jeff Jaffe" <jeff@w3.org>:
>>
>> On 11/12/2014 5:56 AM, chaals@yandex-team.ru 
>> <mailto:chaals@yandex-team.ru> wrote:
>>> OK, so here is a proposal to resolve the issue.
> (By which I mean issue 140)
>>> We should replace the text between the section 2.2 heading, and the 
>>> section 2.2.1 heading (Team submissions) with the following:
>>> [[[
>>> The Team consists of the Director, CEO, W3C paid staff, interns, and 
>>> W3C Fellows (see the W3C Fellows Program 
>>> <http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Recruitment/Fellows> [PUB32 
>>> <https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/AB/raw-file/default/cover.html#ref-fellows>]). 
>>> The Director MAY delegate responsibility (generally to other 
>>> individuals in the Team) for any of his roles described in this 
>>> document.
>>>
>>> Team administrative information such as Team salaries, detailed 
>>> budgeting, and other business decisions are Team-only 
>>> <https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/AB/raw-file/default/cover.html#Team-only>, 
>>> subject to oversight by the Host institutions.
>>>
>>> W3C is not incorporated. For legal contracts, W3C is represented by 
>>> its "Host" institutions 
>>> <http://www.w3.org/Consortium/facts.html#org>, according to a set of 
>>> joint sponsorship contracts.
>>> ]]]
>>> Notes:
>>> The Team, and The Director, are the people in the Process with 
>>> formal responsibility for doing things, so it seems that clarifying 
>>> that the Director can delegate those responsibilities is sufficient 
>>> to make the process match reality.
>>> The CEO does not have a formal role in the Process - indeed, is not 
>>> even mentioned, although various roles assigned to the W3C Chair are 
>>> obvious things the CEO has been doing.
>>> In particular, "The Director, W3C Chair, and COO have the role of 
>>> assessing consensus within the Advisory Committee". - Section 3.3, 
>>> para 1
>>> This is the only formal responsibility of the W3C chair, although 
>>> there is also a statement that that the W3C chair is "generally" 
>>> chair of the AB (historically that is nonsense) and along with the 
>>> COO generally chairs the AC meeting.
>>> There is also a statement in the current section 2.2 that "The W3C 
>>> Chair leads Member relations, and liaisons 
>>> <https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/AB/raw-file/default/cover.html#Liaisons> 
>>> with other organizations, governments, and the public". Which is 
>>> what CEO's generally do, but doesn't actually specify particular tasks.
>>> I think (as per issue 145) we should try and remove the general 
>>> statements about the W3C chair and COO where possible, since they 
>>> are effectively management details of the Team, and the Team governs 
>>> itself.
>>
>> I don't think the Issue is addressed until we appropriately update 
>> the Chair references throughout the document.
> I'm not sure which issue you are talking about. If you mean 145, I 
> agree, but if you mean 140 (the subject of this thread), I don't 
> agree, as follows.
>> In fact, that was the original reason that the Issue was raised.
> Speaking as the person who raised the issues, issue 140 (this one) was 
> raised because the current verbiage about the Team is excessive and 
> doesn't make the document more useful, and issue 145 was raised 
> because defining a role we don't have, and one that doesn't play a 
> formal part in the process, seems to be silly. I believe the two 
> issues are separable - but they should both be addressed.

Actually, I was the person who raised 140.  I agree that the verbiage in 
140 seems to restrict to Section 2.2, but that was not my intent.  I am 
pleased that you raised 145 to further clarify my intent in 140.  It was 
raised not to do a total rewrite of the Section (which is how the Editor 
has interpreted it), but merely to correct the terminology.

I don't object to the rewrite, but I don't agree to dropping useful bits.

> The current proposal actually touches on issue 145, in that it removes 
> the W3C Chair and COO descriptions from the relevant section, but it 
> doesn't resolve that issue completely.
>> I don't agree that the general statements are only details of the 
>> Team and I don't agree that they should be removed from the document.
> OK, we disagree on those two points. The first is a point of theory, 
> although differences in outlook lead to differing suggestions about 
> practice. But the second is a concrete question for what the document 
> says, so I guess it is up to the chair of the TF to resolve the 
> disagreement.
> cheers
> Chaals
> --
> Charles McCathie Nevile - web standards - CTO Office, Yandex
> chaals@yandex-team.ru - - - Find more at http://yandex.com
Received on Wednesday, 12 November 2014 20:47:30 UTC

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