Re: Documents that supersede others

The [current] situation as you highlight with WorldCat search results is that of the representative record/item.  Invariability, as you don’t really know what the searcher is looking for, you end up choosing the wrong one to display, be it by format or edition.

This is one of the reasons why so much effort, not to mention processing power, is being expounded behind the scenes in WorldCat to identify the Work that the individual items are examples of.  Currently that is not yet visible in the UI (we are working on it), it is however embedded in the Schema.org<http://Schema.org> data.

I believe that Work may be a way into the problem being discussed here, providing an anchor/clustering point for the variations/editions of a document - a way in if you like.  This probably does not negate the need for some form of next/previous relationship between the individual examples of the Work though.

With workExample, exampleOfWork, and the proposals around item lists, I think we will have the [Schema] things we need.  The real problem is identifying the data that has, or more likely has not, been capture around these relationships.

On your other point Karen, WorldCat is an aggregation of the works that libraries and partners have catalogued, a little broader than just those held.  But as you suggest not a bibliography of all published works - a nice to have one day, but where from?
~Richard

On 10 Nov 2014, at 07:55, Karen Coyle <kcoyle@kcoyle.net<mailto:kcoyle@kcoyle.net>> wrote:



On 11/10/14 3:44 AM, chaals@yandex-team.ru<mailto:chaals@yandex-team.ru> wrote:
.

Yeah, but our goal in schema.org<http://schema.org/> is to help him land on the one most likely to be what he was looking for.

Which makes me wonder: what is the function behind "landing"? A search? Search on title, author, more? I'm obviously not clear on the scenario because most searches return more than one result. Both Google and Worldcat show one representative item (could be the latest, or the most popular) with a link to "other editions" (which could be worded as "other versions). Does that satisfy your scenario?

kc


The linked list is a good publication practice, and people who keep the historical archive available often do that. If we have terms in schema.org<http://schema.org> that match those, the linked list could be augmented to help searches get completed faster.

cheers

Chaals

I know I have an example that has yet to be catalogued in my
collection, it is a series of electrical handbooks for motorcycles by
Joseph Lucas, I have 19 in the series with what looks like some gaps
in the sequence.

Dave Caroline

On 09/11/2014, Karen Coyle <kcoyle@kcoyle.net<mailto:kcoyle@kcoyle.net>> wrote:
 Another common case is that of chasing down cited documents. I have a
 report that cites a 1984 text on database design. To understand the
 report and why it drew the conclusions it did, I would need to look at
 that text. Gone.

 Cited digital documents can be "pushed" to archiving services (such as
 the Internet Archive) where they will be stored with a unique
 identifier. Subsequent versions need to carry a link to at least the
 immediately preceding version. That's the ideal case.

 Note that in the case of hard copy items, libraries do not keep a record
 of discarded books, so not only is the book gone, the record that the
 book ever existed is also gone, other than to the extent that it has
 been referenced by a still-extant document.

 In other words, a huge bibliographic database like OCLC is not a
 bibliography of published works, only of works currently held in libraries.

 For some reason, this bothers me.

 kc

 On 11/9/14 12:45 AM, chaals@yandex-team.ru<mailto:chaals@yandex-team.ru> wrote:
 09.11.2014, 08:54, "Dave Caroline" <dave.thearchivist@gmail.com<mailto:dave.thearchivist@gmail.com>>:
 Please dont forget the users who want a version of document to match
 the item they have, I am thinking of a manual for an item, they also
 go through various versions, sometimes with a model number change,
 some times with a serial number/date range of device to doc relation.
 I started by facing a similar use case - drafts of specifications.

 When you implemented against a particular draft it is useful to be able to
 find it. But the 80% case is "the latest version (perhaps with some status
 or characteristic)".

 The behaviour I am trying to catch is attempts to remove the older
 versions from search results by marking them "don't index", while allowing
 for the 80% case to be simple - you get the one that superseded everything
 unless you want it to have some feature described that was removed, or
 something like that.

 cheers
 Note some information is missing from the original documents and items.

 At the moment I have not added schema.org<http://schema.org> to my data because of this
 sort of miss match.

 Dave Caroline

 An example manual search for one model number gets me 13 results in my
 current collection.
 http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=telequipment+oscilloscope+s43

 On 09/11/2014, chaals@yandex-team.ru<mailto:chaals@yandex-team.ru> <chaals@yandex-team.ru<mailto:chaals@yandex-team.ru>> wrote:
   Hi,

   we already mark properties in schema with
 http://schema.org/supersededBy
   (whose range includes property and so far nothing else).

   In various contexts entire documents do this, such as when they are
 being
   drafted, or when version X+1 replaces version X of something, or when
 a
   regulation is superseded by another, or when a set of rules for a
 sport is
   updated

   The specific use case is a series of drafts that turn up pretty
 randomly in
   searches. For most purposes, the one anybody might want is the latest
   (admittedly there may be more than one form of "latest").

   But I can think of a bunch of others...

   cheers

   Chaals

   --
   Charles McCathie Nevile - web standards - CTO Office, Yandex
   chaals@yandex-team.ru<mailto:chaals@yandex-team.ru> - - - Find more at http://yandex.com
 --
 Charles McCathie Nevile - web standards - CTO Office, Yandex
 chaals@yandex-team.ru<mailto:chaals@yandex-team.ru> - - - Find more at http://yandex.com
 --
 Karen Coyle
 kcoyle@kcoyle.net<mailto:kcoyle@kcoyle.net> http://kcoyle.net
 m: 1-510-435-8234
 skype: kcoylenet/+1-510-984-3600

--
Charles McCathie Nevile - web standards - CTO Office, Yandex
chaals@yandex-team.ru<mailto:chaals@yandex-team.ru> - - - Find more at http://yandex.com


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Karen Coyle
kcoyle@kcoyle.net<mailto:kcoyle@kcoyle.net> http://kcoyle.net<http://kcoyle.net/>
m: 1-510-435-8234
skype: kcoylenet/+1-510-984-3600