Re: VideoGame proposal

* "softwareLocalizer" (new property with a range of Person or
Organization) points out that CreativeWork generally lacks a
"translator" property (which is as important as the author for
translations of literature or philosophy).

+1 Obvious need for such a [translator] property in the bibliographic domain - plus the related proper(ies) for relating CreativeWorks hasTranslation/translationOf.

This reminded me of something I was thinking of proposing anyway, more than happy to see it introduced via this route.


~Richard

On 15 May 2014, at 21:24, Aaron Bradley <aaranged@gmail.com<mailto:aaranged@gmail.com>> wrote:

Thanks Jeff.  Just quickly you reminded me that I forgot, in my previous message, that it's probably worthwhile to consider the implications of the new types in the context of schema.org/PlayAction<http://schema.org/PlayAction> to see if there's any connections we should be drawing.  This came to mind in your discussion of Steam/BattleNet (analogous in the EA environment to Origin). One way or another I like where you're going with this Jeff (and I'll note that the inherited PlayAction property agent does indeed use Person).

While I understand the rationale behind using productontology.org<http://productontology.org/> URIs I come down squarely against relying upon them in any situation where the class and/or properties in question are likely to be widely used by a large number of webmasters.  I feel confident in saying that potential benefits of employing productontology.org<http://productontology.org/> URIs for something like the proposed platform property will ever remain potential because hardly anyone will employ it.  schema.org<http://schema.org/>'s better-than-anticipated success has been predicated not only because it's easy to employ, but on the fact that it's self-contained.  IMO, every time we punt to an external vocabulary we're shooting ourselves in the foot:  I can't stress this enough (and I welcome Martin Hepp's input on this, both because I know he's had something to say about this recently in the context of his generic property/value pair proposal and, of course, because of his experience with productontology.org<http://productontology.org/>).



On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Jeff Mixter <jeffmixter@gmail.com<mailto:jeffmixter@gmail.com>> wrote:
I think the proposal for exploring video game modeling in Schema.org<http://Schema.org> is very interesting and could have very significant implications.  As Dan and others pointed out, there seems to be some good general properties that could be applied to higher level Classes (such as Thing).  As Aaron also pointed out, there might be some subjective issues in classifying very granular types of video games (such as Role Playing).  I do think that granular classes are important but it might be better to defer to something like Product Type Ontology for this. For example one could use a generic schema:VideoGame class and associated properties to describe a game and add an additional rdf type of http://www.productontology.org/id/Role-playing_video_game. The problem with this approach would obviously be if there are specific properties that are unique to a certain sub-class of video games.  I think that mocking up enough use cases could help sort out some of these issues.

An aspect that I have been exploring/thinking about that was not directly addressed in this proposal was modeling the management of video game.  This could allow video game producers and more importantly service supporters/content providres (such as Steam or BattleNet) to manage users and the relationships they have across games.  For example Steam acts as a universal online platform for disseminating games and Steam users have usernames that are linked to their Steam accounts.  There are though some games (available through Steam) that require separate accounts to be created for online play.  It would be very interesting if there were a way connect users (arguably schema:Person instances) across games and service providers.  I have thought a bit about this and it could be done using primarily existing classes/properties.  If there is interest, I could mock up a few examples and send them out.

This topic is very interesting to me and if there is continued interests in the modeling of video games, I would jump at the opportunity to contribute either ideas of data examples.

Thanks,

Jeff Mixter
440-773-9079<tel:440-773-9079>
mixterjeff@gmail.com<mailto:mixterjeff@gmail.com>


On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 1:38 PM, Aaron Bradley <aaranged@gmail.com<mailto:aaranged@gmail.com>> wrote:
Thanks for this Yuliya, and for your thoughtful feedback Dan and Owen.  Some intial thoughts...

Does it makes sense also to have MobileGame, as a more specific type of MobileApplication - the properties of which it would inherit?  Aside from that property inheritance, mobile games bear the same relationship to video games as mobile applications do to software applications, so it makes sense IMO to carry over that logic (e.g. [1]).

OnlineGame is, I think, a little problematic insofar as the bulk of packaged video games published these days have online components to them.  For example, Battlefield 4 [2] would be classified as a VideoGame if played offline, in single-player mode, but would be classfied as an OnlineGame if played in online mode.  I'd opt for simply rolling those OnlineGame properties into VideoGame.

In the spirit of both those comments and following the *Application path, if one were to drop OnlineGame because its mode-dependent, might one wish to instead to have WebGame, which is a game specifically played on a browser and - like WebApplication, often has specific requirements, like Flash support, or use of a specific browser [3].

+1 to all of Dan's comments.  In particular, I like the idea of making "playModes" (or "playMode") an enumeration.  And yes, "playersNumber" is ambiguous and would almost certainly end up being confused by some with max/minNumberOfPlayer:  either of Dan's suggestions are preferable.

Big +1 to Owen's suggestion to reconstitute "RolePlayingGame" simply as "Game".  On one hand what does and doesn't qualify as a "role playing" game is a highly subjective judgement.  On the other hand, as Owen points out, some of the proposed properties are applicable to broader categories of games, which would also make this type more broadly useful.

As this proposal for VideoGame just barely forestalls my own (which, in light of this excellent work by Yandex, won't be forthcoming:), I can confirm that Electronic Arts - one of the world's largest video game publishers - enthusiastically supports this proposal.

Aaron Bradley
SEO Analyst, Electronic Arts

[1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ea.game.simpsons4_na
[2] http://www.battlefield.com/battlefield-4
[3] http://chrome.angrybirds.com/



On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 9:36 AM, Owen Stephens <owen@ostephens.com<mailto:owen@ostephens.com>> wrote:
RolePlayingGame seems specific while at least some of the properties (min/max players at the very least) seem common to other types of game.
Would it make more sense to simply have /Game as a creative work?

Owen Stephens
Owen Stephens Consulting
Web: http://www.ostephens.com<http://www.ostephens.com/>
Email: owen@ostephens.com<mailto:owen@ostephens.com>
Telephone: 0121 288 6936

On 15 May 2014, at 11:48, Yuliya Tikhokhod <tilid@yandex-team.ru<mailto:tilid@yandex-team.ru>> wrote:

This is proposal from Yandex (one of the schema.org<http://schema.org/> sponsors).

There are many sites dedicated to games (for example, http://store.steampowered.com/app/244850/, http://www.gamespot.com/eve-online/, https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.zeptolab.ctr2.f2p.google). They contain some specific information, for which we have no specific classes and properties in schema.org<http://schema.org/>.

We made separate class for game as a creative work (with  complicated rules, characters, narrative). And called it RolePlayingGame. Maybe this is not a very good name and we will be thankful if you suggest better name for class describing games with complicated rules, fictional characters and specific locations.
Then VideoGame class is a child of two parents -  RolePlayingGame and SoftwareApplication.

We also added some additional properties to SoftwareApplication class.

This is test build of schema.org<http://schema.org/> with this proposal
http://sdo-yavg.appspot.com/VideoGame
http://sdo-yavg.appspot.com/RolePlayingGame
http://sdo-yavg.appspot.com/OnlineGame
http://sdo-yavg.appspot.com/SoftwareApplication

In attachment you can find pdf version of this proposal

--
Yuliya Tikhokhod

Yandex

<VideoGame.pdf>





--
Jeff Mixter
jeffmixter@gmail.com<mailto:jeffmixter@gmail.com>
440-773-9079<tel:440-773-9079>