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Re: Generic Property-Value Proposal for Schema.org

From: <martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org>
Date: Thu, 1 May 2014 02:39:37 +0200
Cc: W3C Web Schemas Task Force <public-vocabs@w3.org>
Message-Id: <4B4918CB-7BC1-461A-8F68-FFE1EF07C5CC@ebusiness-unibw.org>
To: Mike Bergman <mike@mkbergman.com>
Dear Mike:

If you critize the proposal for deferring part of the semantic alignment to the consumer, and claim that an approach that allows preserving that much of meta-data as can be easily provided by sites is useless, then you must also claim that RDF is useless. RDF does not bringt more to the table than a portable mechanism for exchanging very lightweight conceptual structures. Still, the whole Web of Data and Linked Open Data Cloud celebration, in essence only uses RDF from the Semantic Web technology stack. So if you say that a proposal that allows preserving a few core data modeling primitives in Web data is not an advancement, you must also say that all enthusiasm over existing work on the Web of Data and the Linked Open Data Cloud is a hollow, useless celebration, for there is not semantic reconcilitation of the underlying data schemas.

Martin

On 01 May 2014, at 02:14, Mike Bergman <mike@mkbergman.com> wrote:

> Hi Martin,
> 
> On 4/30/2014 7:01 PM, martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org wrote:
>> Mike:
>>> +1
>>> 
>>> On 4/30/2014 6:03 PM, Peter F. Patel-Schneider wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> On 04/30/2014 01:43 PM, martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Sure, if you have considerable resources, you may be able to make sense
>>>> of the heterogeneity, but I thought that the idea behind schema.org was
>>>> to put some homogeneity on information, i.e., precisely to move away
>>>> from the difficult aspects of human languages.
>>>> 
>> 
>> Do you have a counter proposal on how we could allow manufacturers of products to mark-up their product feature data with schema.org?
>> 
> 
> Are you suggesting that I need to have a counter proposal in order to comment on a public forum?
> 
> I am doing what I can to embrace schema.org in our ongoing semantic efforts. I plan to continue to comment when appropriate on matters brought to this forum. Hopefully, on occasion, we may even contribute back a bit to the substance of schema.org and its interoperability with other aspects of the Web.
> 
> Thanks, Mike
> 
>> Have a look at typical page types:
>> 
>> 	• http://www.bestbuy.com/site/apple-iphone-5c-16gb-cell-phone-white-at-t/1722018.p (go to "Specifications")
>> 	• http://www.nikonusa.com/en/Nikon-Products/Product/Digital-slr-Cameras/25492/D3200.html (go to "Tech Spec")
>> 	• http://www.bose.com/controller?url=/shop_online/digital_music_systems/bluetooth_speakers/soundlink_mini/index.jsp (go to "Details")
>> 
>> In particular the Nikon camera is a nice one.
>> 
>> eClass spent more than 15 years on trying to standardize the properties for products, and they still only cover a small part of product types (39,000 to date) and respective properties (16,000). It is not feasible to standardize product properties at Web scale nor to expect Web sites at scale to be able to map their local data collections to such a standard.
>> 
>> By the way, the mission statement of schema.org is not "to put some homogeneity on information" nor to make the Semantic Web a reality, but instead [1]:
>> 
>> "This site provides a collection of schemas that webmasters can use to markup HTML pages in ways recognized by major search providers, and that can also be used for structured data interoperability (e.g. in JSON). Search engines including Bing, Google, Yahoo! and Yandex rely on this markup to improve the display of search results, making it easier for people to find the right Web pages.
>> Many sites are generated from structured data, which is often stored in databases. When this data is formatted into HTML, it becomes very difficult to recover the original structured data. Many applications, especially search engines, can benefit greatly from direct access to this structured data. On-page markup enables search engines to understand the information on web pages and provide richer search results in order to make it easier for users to find relevant information on the web. Markup can also enable new tools and applications that make use of the structure.
>> A shared markup vocabulary makes it easier for webmasters to decide on a markup schema and get the maximum benefit for their efforts. So, in the spirit of sitemaps.org, search engines have come together to provide a shared collection of schemas that webmasters can use.
>> 
>> "
>> 
>> Note the part "Many sites are generated from structured data, which is often stored in databases. When this data is formatted into HTML, it becomes very difficult to recover the original structured data. Many applications, especially search engines, can benefit greatly from direct access to this structured data."
>> 
>> This is exactly what the proposed extension allows.
>> 
>> 
>> Martin
>> [1] http://schema.org/
>> 
>> --------------------------------------------------------
>> martin hepp
>> e-business & web science research group
>> universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen
>> 
>> e-mail:  martin.hepp@unibw.de
>> phone:   +49-(0)89-6004-4217
>> fax:     +49-(0)89-6004-4620
>> www:     http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
>>          http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal)
>> skype:   mfhepp
>> twitter: mfhepp
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 01 May 2014, at 01:46, Mike Bergman <mike@mkbergman.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> +1
>>> 
>>> On 4/30/2014 6:03 PM, Peter F. Patel-Schneider wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> On 04/30/2014 01:43 PM, martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Sure, if you have considerable resources, you may be able to make sense
>>>> of the heterogeneity, but I thought that the idea behind schema.org was
>>>> to put some homogeneity on information, i.e., precisely to move away
>>>> from the difficult aspects of human languages.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> __________________________________________
>>> 
>>> Michael K. Bergman
>>> CEO  Structured Dynamics LLC
>>> 319.621.5225
>>> skype:michaelkbergman
>>> http://structureddynamics.com
>>> http://mkbergman.com
>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/mkbergman
>>> __________________________________________
>>> 
>> 
>> Best wishes / Mit freundlichen Grüßen
>> 
>> Martin Hepp
>> 
>> -------------------------------------------------------
>> martin hepp
>> e-business & web science research group
>> universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen
>> 
>> e-mail:  martin.hepp@unibw.de
>> phone:   +49-(0)89-6004-4217
>> fax:     +49-(0)89-6004-4620
>> www:     http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
>>          http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal)
>> skype:   mfhepp
>> twitter: mfhepp
>> 
>> Check out GoodRelations for E-Commerce on the Web of Linked Data!
>> =================================================================
>> * Project Main Page: http://purl.org/goodrelations/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 01 May 2014, at 01:46, Mike Bergman <mike@mkbergman.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> +1
>>> 
>>> On 4/30/2014 6:03 PM, Peter F. Patel-Schneider wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> On 04/30/2014 01:43 PM, martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Sure, if you have considerable resources, you may be able to make sense
>>>> of the heterogeneity, but I thought that the idea behind schema.org was
>>>> to put some homogeneity on information, i.e., precisely to move away
>>>> from the difficult aspects of human languages.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> __________________________________________
>>> 
>>> Michael K. Bergman
>>> CEO  Structured Dynamics LLC
>>> 319.621.5225
>>> skype:michaelkbergman
>>> http://structureddynamics.com
>>> http://mkbergman.com
>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/mkbergman
>>> __________________________________________
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
Received on Thursday, 1 May 2014 00:40:01 UTC

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