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Re: Is there an (online) tool that can generate a visual graph?

From: Jarno van Driel <jarno@quantumspork.nl>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 21:51:30 +0100
Message-ID: <CAFQgrbbZ0Ygc6cwX_2PMkQ+HMovE2OdLKnTgPXxRGcc6UdLqnw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>
Cc: Gregg Kellogg <gregg@greggkellogg.net>, W3C Web Schemas Task Force <public-vocabs@w3.org>, Niklas Lindström <lindstream@gmail.com>
If there was a semantic wishlist I could put something on, I know what I'd
put on it: Having you guys locked in an office together, so you could work,
undisturbed, on a tool which combines the power of all your tools into one.

And I'm only half kidding with that. One of the things I'm struggling with
in offering Semantic markup services is the amount of time it takes not
only to design data models and then marking it all up but also the time it
takes to validate it all. I estimate just the markup validation process
takes about 20%-40% of the time on any project where I mark up beyond just
an Article or Product template. Simply because the different tools
available (and mentioned) somehow always end up with returning a slightly
different outcome. Which leads to having to compare all those different
outcomes with each other and trying to dedact if I got it right. A very
time consuming and therefore costly process.

Besides the 'gap' in proper documentation I think this is also one of the
things that's holding back the implementation of more extensive markup on
websites. The costs involved are keeping it exclusive for those select few
who can pick up the bill. Having better tools/software for this would
seriously help cut back costs and make it more accessible. For both the
organizations offering these types of services as well as their possible
clients - who are the ones who have to pay for it after all.

That's what lead to my original question. I'm looking for ways to cut the
costs of semantic markup so more website owners can afford going beyond the
basics. Mind you, I don't want to give the impression I think the mentioned
tools are anything less than marvelous but from a commercial standpoint, I
need more than is being offered right now.

On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 9:56 AM, Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org> wrote:

> Jarno,
> the
> http://www.w3.org/TR/microdata-rdf/
> note defines a mapping to RDF that also includes a way to map @itemref. I
> do not know about Niklas' tool in this respect (sorry Niklas!), but I would
> expect Gregg's parser:
> http://greggkellogg.net/2011/06/microdata-parser-for-rdf-rb/
> does it and, as far as I know (sorry for the blatant self-promotion) my
> microdata mapper does it, too:
> http://www.w3.org/2012/pyMicrodata/
> (Oh boy, I have just opened myself to possible bug reports:-)
> Of course, the problem that all these would generate RDF directly, ie, you
> would have to plug the result into some RDF visualizer. But it may still
> help.
> (But I would try Niklas' tool first to see if he does @itemref. Knowing
> Niklas, I would not be surprised:-)
> Ivan
> On 09 Mar 2014, at 24:15 , Jarno van Driel <jarno@quantumspork.nl> wrote:
> > The problem for me with translating Microdata to RDFa is that my markup
> usually makes use of the itemref property (quite a lot), which doesn't lend
> itself to be automatically translated into RDFa very well.
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 12:11 AM, Gregg Kellogg <gregg@greggkellogg.net>
> wrote:
> >
> > Gregg Kellogg
> > gregg@greggkellogg.net
> >
> > On Mar 8, 2014, at 3:46 PM, Jarno van Driel <jarno@quantumspork.nl>
> wrote:
> >
> >> So far I have been using Microdata parser (
> http://tools.seomoves.org/microdata/) as a visual aid when debugging
> Microdata. But I find it limited in it's use since it doesn't show
> everything, and once a document passes 40 or more types it becomes more or
> less unreadable since it's graph goes off-screen.
> >>
> >> Now the only alternatives I know of (Google's SDTT, Yandex' SDV and the
> Structured data linter) are all text based. Which is cute but doesn't
> really help when debugging pages with 100+ entities.
> >>
> >> Therefor I'm looking for something like RDFa Play but then something
> that accepts both RDFa and Microdata. Does anybody of you know of such a
> tool?
> >
> > I think Niklas' RDFa Lab project [1] includes a Microdata to RDFa
> translator, which you could use to pre-process your HTML+microdata to get
> HTML+RDFa, which you could then visualize using the RDFa Playground. I
> think it can work as a bookmarklet, so you could do it all in-browser.
> Niklas can say more.
> >
> > Gregg
> >
> > [1] https://github.com/niklasl/rdfa-lab
> >
> >
> ----
> Ivan Herman, W3C
> Digital Publishing Activity Lead
> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
> mobile: +31-641044153
> GPG: 0x343F1A3D
> FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf
Received on Tuesday, 11 March 2014 20:51:59 UTC

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