W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-vocabs@w3.org > December 2014

Re: Automotive, EXIF, Property-Values

From: <mfhepp@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2014 22:55:20 +0100
Cc: Aaron Bradley <aaranged@gmail.com>, Charles McCathie Nevile <chaals@yandex-team.ru>, W3C Web Schemas Task Force <public-vocabs@w3.org>, Dan Brickley <danbri@google.com>, Guha Guha <guha@google.com>
Message-Id: <C94C4658-6CA0-48BC-9C49-4823A8897C92@gmail.com>
To: Vicki Tardif Holland <vtardif@google.com>
I just changed Bike to Bicycle in the codebase, pull-request, and W3C Wiki proposal.

@Dan: As per our discussion, the pull request is still based on danbri:sdo-venkman, not sdo-stanz. If it helps a lot, I could migrate the pull request, but I actually think it will be less effort to do a merge on your end; the necessary manual clean-up should be minimal or none.

Martin

-----------------------------------
martin hepp  http://www.heppnetz.de
mhepp@computer.org          @mfhepp







On 17 Dec 2014, at 21:11, mfhepp@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi Vicky, all:
> 
> I just created an issue for this 
> 
>    https://github.com/mfhepp/schemaorg/issues/1
> 
> and will update the pull request shortly.
> 
> Martin
> 
> -----------------------------------
> martin hepp  http://www.heppnetz.de
> mhepp@computer.org          @mfhepp
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 17 Dec 2014, at 21:04, Vicki Tardif Holland <vtardif@google.com> wrote:
> 
>> To add a voice to the Bike vs Bicycle debate, I also prefer Bicycle, in part because it is similar to "MotorizedBicycle".
>> 
>> - Vicki
>> 
>> 
>> Vicki Tardif Holland | Ontologist | vtardif@google.com 
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 2:55 PM, Aaron Bradley <aaranged@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Thanks Martin.
>> 
>> Regarding Bike vs. Bicycle I would also favor the latter because of ambiguity issues with the former.  "Bike" is often used colloquially to refer to a motorcycle, but no one has ever called a Harley a "bicycle." :)
>> 
>> Regarding the PropertyValue type you say:
>> 3. A type for exposing semi-structured product and place feature information
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>    http://sdo-property-value.appspot.com/PropertyValue
>> plus three new properties for this type:
>>    additionalProperty
>>    propertyID
>>    unitText
>> 
>> Yet neither of the three properties listed directly above are listed in the property list ("Properties from PropertyValue") on...
>> http://sdo-property-value.appspot.com/PropertyValue
>> ...or have their own URIs, yet all three are used in the examples on that page.
>> 
>> Was that simply an oversight, or were those properties intentionally omitted from the property listing?
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 11:39 AM, mfhepp@gmail.com <mfhepp@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Chaals,
>> 
>> 
>> On 17 Dec 2014, at 20:31, chaals@yandex-team.ru wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 17.12.2014, 16:57, "mfhepp@gmail.com" <mfhepp@gmail.com>:
>>>> Hi Chaals, all:
>>>> 
>>>> On 17 Dec 2014, at 14:23, chaals@yandex-team.ru wrote:
>>>>> A few tiny comments…
>>>>> 
>>>>> 17.12.2014, 13:03, "mfhepp@gmail.com" <mfhepp@gmail.com>:
>>>>>> In effect, it adds the following elements:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 1. Types for common vehicle categories
>>>>>> --------------------------------------
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     http://sdo-property-value.appspot.com/Bike
>>>>> I'd really like this to be called "Bicycle".
>>>> 
>>>> If this is consensual, I am happy to change it
>>> 
>>> Well, so far it is just me…
>> 
>> Google's N-Gram viewer shows a slight advantage for Bicycle over Bike in English:
>> 
>>    https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=a+bike%2Ca+bicycle&year_start=1800&year_end=2014&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Ca%20bike%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Ca%20bicycle%3B%2Cc0
>> 
>> 
>> So I would be prone to implement this.
>> 
>>> 
>>>>>> 2. Properties for common, vendor-independent car features
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> For a list, see here:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     http://www.w3.org/wiki/WebSchemas/Vehicles#New_Properties
>>>>> transmission, gears, payload, speed, airbags, doors, damages all seem like terms that could *easily* get confused, and should should probably be disambiguated by making them longer and more specific.
>>>> 
>>>> We have conflict between ease for use for the main case and potential conflicts due to the "global property notion" in schema.org.
>>>> 
>>>> I am fine to prefix them all to
>>>> 
>>>> vehicleTransmission
>>>> vehicleGears
>>>> vehicleAirbags etc.
>>>> 
>>>> if this is consensual - Dan, Guha what is your take?
>>>> 
>>>> From a Web developers perspective, I think the shorter names are more appealing because the typing effort will be much lower, and also an auto-complete feature in an editor will not work as well if 20+ properties have the same prefix.
>>>> 
>>>> Due to the examples in three syntaxes, I would like to know the consensual opinion among the sponsors of schema.org prior to implementing the change.
>>> 
>>> Fair enough. And you point about this becoming a bigger problem if schema keeps growing is a sensible one. We either end up namespacing by adding words into names and maintain the flat schema, or we do something to structure it and break what we said before. In the former case, we start relying on tools to help out more… which puts an onus on us to help them out more…
>> 
>> So in this case, I would suggest to stick with the names in the current proposal. Prefixing all properties with "vehicleXYZ" will
>> - make them cumbersome to use
>> - be in contrast to the naming patterns in use for schema.org and
>> - while it reduces the risks for collisions, it makes it harder to spot similarities and to reuse properties.
>> 
>> Also, they are designed to be free from collisions with the existing vocabulary.
>> 
>> Can I infer from your mail that your are in general fine with the proposal, despite these two issues?
>> 
>> Martin
>> 
>>> 
>>> cheers
>>> 
>>> Chaals
>>> 
>>>> Martin
>>>>> cheers
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Charles McCathie Nevile - web standards - CTO Office, Yandex
>>>>> chaals@yandex-team.ru - - - Find more at http://yandex.com
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Charles McCathie Nevile - web standards - CTO Office, Yandex
>>> chaals@yandex-team.ru - - - Find more at http://yandex.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
Received on Wednesday, 17 December 2014 21:55:50 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Tuesday, 6 January 2015 21:29:46 UTC