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Re: [Proposal] schema:OnlineCourse

From: Wes Turner <wes.turner@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 06:56:02 -0600
Message-ID: <CACfEFw9bzm_u3XBfP+ddvYCHqHA1JJaQek9MxEN3uyNq=krXgQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Barker, Phil A" <Phil.Barker@hw.ac.uk>
Cc: Vicki Tardif Holland <vtardif@google.com>, GUANGYUAN PIAO <parklize@gmail.com>, Thad Guidry <thadguidry@gmail.com>, Aaron Bradley <aaranged@gmail.com>, Public Vocabs <public-vocabs@w3.org>
> 1. Courses can comprise Courses. This is especially important at
Universities that recruit into and award certificates for programmes
(Courses) that are built from modules (Courses).

Is this satisfied by http://schema.org/isPartOf , or is there a need for a
more specific property?

> 2. I don't think there is much to be gained from having a separate class
on OnlineCourse rather than a property of a Course to flag whether it is
online or not. I  think the properties you have for OnlineCourse also apply
to regular courses. Most regular courses have an online component.

So long as there is something to indicate that a Course is a "MOOC".

> 3. I think it would be better to model an instance of a Course as a
collection of EducationalEvents and CreativeWorks.

This could indeed be useful for e.g. modeling a Syllabus.

Use Case: I've been thinking about how to express a curriculum set with/as
RDFa. I have a number of PDFs; and I have a number of wikipedia
topic/concept links which are advantageous in that they are translated
conceptual identifiers, in dbpedia. These could be 'educationalAlignment'
'AlignmentObject.targetURL' s, if they were an 'established educational
framework.' [1][2] ... How do I legitimize this with parenthetical
notations and necessary RDFa?

In consultation with the authors of SKOS about adding prefPluralLabel (not
likely, in the near future), I learned about
http://rdf-vocabulary.ddialliance.org/xkos.html , which demonstrates usage
of rdf:List ; which would be useful for expressing an ordered set of
syllabi things that have URIs and metadata.

> 4. [normative epistemiology:
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/learning-formal/ ]

"Education must provide the opportunities for self-fulfillment; it can at
best provide a rich and challenging environment for the individual to
explore, in [his] own way." -- Chomsky


> [...] do you have some usecases in mind and target example websites? It's
difficult to assess whether these properties are sufficient and realistic
without those.

If you have the time to dig through, this thread [3] lists a number of
hypothetical and actual use cases:


   - http://www.edumine.com/
   - http://www.ieee.org/portal/innovate/products/educational/
   - https://www.futurelearn.com/
   - https://www.udacity.com/
   - https://www.edx.org/
   - https://www.coursera.org/
   - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_learning_management_systems
   - [University] Course Catalogs contain prerequisites and matriculation
   requirements
   - US Primary education standards: http://www.corestandards.org/ "Common
   Core"
      - This could potentially be extremely useful for discovering useful
      curriculum resources
   - https://developers.google.com/edu/curriculumsearch/
   (educationalAlignment -> "Course")


   - Src: https://github.com/edx/
   - Src:
   https://github.com/classcentral/class-central/tree/master/src/ClassCentral/SiteBundle/Entity


[1] https://westurner.github.io/redditlog/#comment/ci3c1o3
[2] https://wrdrd.github.io/docs/consulting/knowledge-engineering.html
[3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vocabs/2014Feb/0131.html


On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 5:19 AM, Barker, Phil A <Phil.Barker@hw.ac.uk>
wrote:
>
>
> Vicki, thanks for the heads up, I would have missed this otherwise.
>
> I have added some comments to the Google Doc, the most significant are:
>
> 1. Courses can comprise Courses. This is especially important at
> Universities that recruit into and award certificates for programmes
> (Courses) that are built from modules (Courses).
>
> 2. I don't think there is much to be gained from having a separate class
> on OnlineCourse rather than a property of a Course to flag whether it is
> online or not. I  think the properties you have for OnlineCourse also apply
> to regular courses. Most regular courses have an online component.
>
> 3. I think it would be better to model an instance of a Course as a
> collection of EducationalEvents and CreativeWorks.
>
> 4. Language is difficult. The different usage between UK and US English is
> one thing, but more importantly commonly used terms often relate to
> specific education systems or pedagogies. So phrases like "instructors
> deliver lessons to students" implies a particular pedagogy. Also this means
> that common terms become ambiguous and open to misinterpretation in
> international use, e.g. class, course, programme, module. This is important
> in schema.org where definitions tend to be minimalist.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> As a general question, do you have some usecases in mind and target
> example websites? It's difficult to assess whether these properties are
> sufficient and realistic without those.
>
> Phil
>
>
>  ------------------------------
> *From:* Vicki Tardif Holland [vtardif@google.com]
> *Sent:* 15 December 2014 18:40
> *To:* Wes Turner
> *Cc:* GUANGYUAN PIAO; Thad Guidry; Aaron Bradley; Public Vocabs
> *Subject:* Re: [Proposal] schema:OnlineCourse
>
>   (I commented on GitHub, but I am not sure if everyone is over there, so
> I am duplicating the message here.)
>
>  I have read through all of the comments and background links and
> attempted to pull the various ideas into a cohesive whole. My thoughts are
> still rather preliminary, but can be found at
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/12YWjLzZC8FiTiOwSAETRIEozeqZdn6O8a4fgqK4t5Ss/edit?usp=sharing
>
>  It would be nice to be able to support in-person classes (academic or
> not) and MOOCs.
>
>  Please comment here or on GitHub.
>
>  - Vicki
>
>
>   Vicki Tardif Holland | Ontologist | vtardif@google.com
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 4:35 PM, Wes Turner <wes.turner@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I've created a GitHub issue ticket for this Proposal:
>>
>>  https://github.com/rvguha/schemaorg/issues/195
>>
>>  cc'ing a comment here, because DRY:
>>
>>   What is missing or could be added?
>>> From http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vocabs/2014Feb/0127.html
>>>  :
>>>
>>>> Properties:
>>>>
>>>>    - derivedFrom/previousIncantation property could also be helpful.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    - prerequisitve/buildsUpon/suggestedPrerequisite properties would
>>>>    be great.
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>> Types for these properties would need to be <Course>.
>>
>>  ... This would then form a graph of Courses and/or OnlineCourses.
>>
>>
>>  It may be most helpful to transition discussion to a task-focused
>> GitHub issue.
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 10:16 PM, Wes Turner <wes.turner@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In creating said ticket [openbadges/openbadges-specifiation/9], I'm
>>> having trouble linking to the entirety of a mailing list thread (who know).
>>>
>>>  Is there / should there be an issue for OnlineCourse here:
>>> https://github.com/rvguha/schemaorg/issues ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Wes Turner <wes.turner@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've opened a ticket with the OpenBadges specification project:
>>>> https://github.com/openbadges/openbadges-specification/issues/9
>>>>
>>>>  > How could/should we reference badges offered by a
>>>> schema.org/OnlineCourse ?
>>>>
>>>> > We could point to just URIs, but then we'd need to lookup badge
>>>> titles.
>>>>
>>>> > Would it be feasible to create schema.org/Badge ?
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 9:52 PM, Wes Turner <wes.turner@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 3:11 PM, GUANGYUAN PIAO <parklize@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>  1. Is it worth adding a "prerequisiteCourse" property to list the
>>>>>> prerequisites for the given course?
>>>>>>      - IMO, "prerequisiteCourse" or "requirements" for the Course
>>>>>> could provide rich snippets for users to know if it
>>>>>> is appropriate for him/her.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Where can I add topical links to wikipedia (dbpedia [1])? e.g. This
>>>>> course is about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linked_data and
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_Web
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] http://lod-cloud.net/
>>>>>
>>>>>   2. Can we change "isCertificateAvailable" from a boolean to
>>>>>> something with a little more data? Maybe the type of certificate granted or
>>>>>> the institution granting the certificate?
>>>>>>      - +1, and then it will need Certificate type and additional
>>>>>> properties to think about.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>  http://openbadges.org/ are gaining momentum. [2]
>>>>>
>>>>>  Would "credential" be a more generic predicate?
>>>>>
>>>>>  [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Open_Badges
>>>>> [3] https://wiki.mozilla.org/Badges
>>>>> [4] https://github.com/mozilla/openbadges#mozilla-open-badges
>>>>> [5]
>>>>> https://github.com/openbadges/openbadges-specification/blob/master/Assertion/latest.md
>>>>> (JSON Web Signatures)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  --
>>>>> Wes Turner
>>>>> https://westurner.github.io/
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  --
>>>> Wes Turner
>>>> https://westurner.github.io/
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  --
>>> Wes Turner
>>> https://westurner.github.io/
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Received on Tuesday, 16 December 2014 12:56:33 UTC

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