W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-vocabs@w3.org > April 2014

Re: Socialnetworks of a person or organization

From: Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 19:36:47 +0200
Message-ID: <CAKaEYh+0z2zBdbo_tNA_RRFqcxSFYPMEjDE5O=jx9g=bUPioPw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Charles McCathie Nevile <chaals@yandex-team.ru>
Cc: Dan Brickley <danbri@google.com>, W3C Web Schemas Task Force <public-vocabs@w3.org>
On 12 April 2014 13:57, Charles McCathie Nevile <chaals@yandex-team.ru>wrote:

> TL;DR: schema:sameAs is a bad name because people think it is like
> owl:sameAs, but it is the pointer to things that can be used to identify
> something being described. In other words, what we want. The rest of the
> problem is to point to things people wrote, for which we need to resolve
> inverses, and then we can use the "author" property inverted.
>

+1 to chaals, kingsley

I suspect sameAs would be a confusing name for many, imho, as it already
has a quite specific meaning in owl


>
> More thinking inline:
>
>
> On Sat, 12 Apr 2014 13:20:57 +0200, Justin Boyan <jaboyan@google.com>
> wrote:
>
>  Does the official website belong in sameAs or account?  It sounds like
>> people think sameAs shouldn't be used for sites that the entity controls,
>> for some reason.
>>
>
> I think we're seriously over complicating this. And forgetting that the
> people who are going to do the work aren't us.
>
>
>  Which property would be used to reference the TripAdvisor page for a
>> business, where the content is partially controlled by the business owner
>> (if claimed) and partially controlled by the site?  Similar hybrid models
>> are common, eg. bandpage.com, researchgate.net .
>>
>
> When asked for something on the web to say who they are, some people use
> their website. Others use their LinkedIn/facebook/vkontakte/G+/terra/…
> account, twitter/weibo/… feed, blog, skype handle, OpenID, etc etc.
>
> Many people don't own a domain, but consider their facebook or G+ account
> as their website. I don't think we help the world, or even schema.org, by
> telling them they are wrong.
>
> For each of these examples, there are others who categorically deny that
> they *are* in any way each of the examples above.
>
> One of the things we are looking for is a way of figuring out who someone
> is, by relating information about them to more information about them.
>
> This seems to be a human (but definitely not OWL) "sameAs" kind of thing.
> Having the same name as owl:sameAs strikes me as a mistake, but essentially
> we want a term that means "Something with a URL that 'identifies' a person
> - maybe a webpage, or an account on a social network" and as far as I know
> that's the current meaning of schema:sameAs.
>
> On the other hand, there are things that people publish. We make it
> trivially easy to point from a metadata record of a creativeWork to its
> author, which is great for librarians professional and amateur, but as far
> as I know we have no way to say "I (the person being described in this
> schema.org fragment) am the author of my blog, some comments on newspaper
> articles, and a collection of photos of cats that I copied from somewhere".
>
> The simplest way to resolve this would be to resolve the outstanding issue
> of inverse properties. People can then simply use the inverse mechanism of
> "author" to say what they wrote. (For a long time instead of having my own
> blog I consciously collected pointers to my comments on others', which
> represented, collectively, my published thoughts).
>
> cheers
>
> Chaals
>
>  Suppose Wikipedia added a feature that let authorities claim certain
>> attributes of their infoboxes and edit them directly. Then would the
>> Wikipedia links all have to migrate from sameAs to account?
>>
>> In the end I don't strongly oppose adding a new property; I'd just like to
>> make sure we can be really clear about the distinction we're asking
>> authors
>> to make because there are so many URL properties on Thing already.
>>
>> Justin
>>  On Apr 11, 2014 7:51 PM, "Aaron Bradley" <aaranged@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>  I think Thad typifies the difference between the "regular web" and the
>>> "social web" (and it is indeed an important one for marketers) well when
>>> he
>>> says:
>>>
>>> > The difference between the 2 is that one has the context of "allows a
>>> communication pathway to an Organization or Person"...versus those that
>>> are
>>> not constructed to really have communication to a Organization or
>>> Person".
>>>
>>> Or - as I might have mentioned before - the "regular web" references
>>> resources *about* an entity, whereas the social web references resources
>>> that emanate *from* an entity.  In regard to the referenced entity the
>>>
>>> former is passive, the latter active (or at least  potentially so) - it's
>>> the difference between a third and person narrative.
>>>
>>> Is the Wikipedia page *about *Monsanto in the same category as the
>>> Twitter account run *by* Monsanto?  I sure don't think so, and I think
>>>
>>> that its useful for data consumers to be able to distinguish between
>>> these
>>> two classes of identifiers when returning information about the entity in
>>> question.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com
>>> >wrote:
>>>
>>>   On 4/11/14 4:06 PM, Jarno van Driel wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Being a non-illuminati I think simple. The description of sameAs
>>>> mentions
>>>> about the item's identity. Now for me my 'identity' isn't defined by a
>>>> Youtube channel where I share random stuff I like on the web. I am no
>>>> @VideoGallery, I'm me, a real life person and not a collection of
>>>> videos.
>>>>
>>>> Dan's example in HTML+Microdata (which by notation choice
>>>> **inadvertently** blurs visibility of the relation semantics in play) :
>>>>
>>>> <div itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/Person"<http://schema.org/
>>>> Person>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <span itemprop="name">Stephen Fry</span>
>>>>     (<a itemprop="url" href="http://www.stephenfry.com/"<
>>>> http://www.stephenfry.com/>
>>>> >stephenfry.com</a>,
>>>>      <a itemprop="sameAs" href="http://twitter.com/stephenfry"<
>>>> http://twitter.com/stephenfry>>twitter</a>,
>>>>
>>>> <a itemprop="sameAs"
>>>> href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Fry"<http://en.
>>>> wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Fry>>wikipedia</a>)
>>>>
>>>> </div>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Turtle  translation:
>>>>
>>>> <> <http://www.w3.org/ns/md#item> <http://www.w3.org/ns/md#item> [
>>>>        <http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#type><http://
>>>> www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#type>
>>>> <http://schema.org/Person> <http://schema.org/Person>;
>>>>        <http://schema.org/name> <http://schema.org/name> "Stephen Fry";
>>>>        <http://schema.org/sameAs> <http://schema.org/sameAs>
>>>> <http://twitter.com/stephenfry> <http://twitter.com/stephenfry>,
>>>>        <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Fry><http://en.
>>>> wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Fry>;
>>>>
>>>>        <http://schema.org/url> <http://schema.org/url>
>>>> <http://www.stephenfry.com/> <http://www.stephenfry.com/>
>>>>      ];
>>>> <http://www.w3.org/ns/rdfa#usesVocabulary><http://www.w3.
>>>> org/ns/rdfa#usesVocabulary>
>>>> <http://schema.org/> <http://schema.org/> .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What does Dan's example demonstrate?
>>>>
>>>> The function of a **pronoun** in a sentence or statement. Basically, the
>>>> example makes the following claim, using terms from <http://schema.org/
>>>> ><http://schema.org/>(a Vocabulary):
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Someone or something has determined the existence of an entity that has
>>>> the following discernible attributes:
>>>> Name: "Stephen Fry"
>>>> Type: Person
>>>> referencedBy: <http://twitter.com/stephenfry><http://twitter.com/
>>>> stephenfry>,
>>>> <http://twitter.com/stephenfry> <http://twitter.com/stephenfry>,
>>>> <http://www.stephenfry.com/> <http://www.stephenfry.com/> .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Personally, I wouldn't denote a relationship predicate/property for this
>>>> relation, in this manner, due to the **equivalence** intuition.
>>>>
>>>> Alternatives inclued:
>>>>
>>>> 1. referencedBy
>>>> 2. subjectOf
>>>> 3. identifiedBy -- this is my personal favorite .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Kingsley Idehen
>>>> Founder & CEO
>>>> OpenLink Software
>>>> Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
>>>> Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
>>>> Twitter Profile: https://twitter.com/kidehen
>>>> Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/+KingsleyIdehen/about
>>>> LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
> --
> Charles McCathie Nevile - Consultant (web standards) CTO Office, Yandex
>       chaals@yandex-team.ru         Find more at http://yandex.com
>
>
Received on Wednesday, 16 April 2014 17:37:17 UTC

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