W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-vocabs@w3.org > September 2013

Re: Proposal: Looking inside tables

From: Guha <guha@google.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2013 13:18:06 -0700
Message-ID: <CAPAGhv8O0L_aSpZQNXRz8ACHPgA2kRRseE2DS7AqWhQ0Wo_RLw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Martin Hepp <martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org>
Cc: Dan Brickley <danbri@google.com>, W3C Web Schemas Task Force <public-vocabs@w3.org>
Martin,

  There are two distinct things to represent --- the structure of the table
itself & the content represented by the table. One approach would be to
treat the former as the primary set of objects and map them to the later
(it is the later that we are really after). The second would be to focus on
the later, which is what Omar's proposal does. The first strategy (the one
you propose) is a good technique too. Would you care to make a concrete
proposal along these lines?

guha


On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 10:06 AM, Martin Hepp <
martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org> wrote:

> Thanks, Guha! In that case - and if you decide to add/extend the support
> for modeling meta-data with schema.org, then it should IMO be done in a
> conceptually clean manner, i.e. by adding respective properties and types
> as in my "from the top of my head" example instead of overloading existing
> properties that are defined for instance data. This would effectively boil
> down to adding the properties
>
>     typeOfEntries - URL of schema.org type
>     column - columns of the table (optional, since directly available from
> the HTML tree)
>
> to http://schema.org/Table and to create a new type
>
>     http://schema.org/TableColumn ( or Dimension or something more
> generic)
>
> with the property
>
>     mapsToProperty - URL or schema.org property
>
> for the basic case (without modeling links between tables, defining
> columns as primary keys or foreign keys, etc.)
>
> Martin
> On Aug 20, 2013, at 8:07 PM, Guha wrote:
>
> > Martin,
> >
> >  Thank you for your feedback. It is always good to see a spirited
> discussion.
> >
> >  For better or worse, it turns out that marking each cell in a table is
> not always an option. So ...
> >
> > guha
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 2:52 AM, Martin Hepp <
> martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > just from the top of my head - if you really want to add such a
> meta-data extension, why don't you create a type
> >
> >     http://schema.org/Table
> >
> > with the properties
> >
> >     typeOfEntries - URL of schema.org type
> >     column - columns of the table (optional, since directly available
> from the HTML tree)
> >
> > and a second type
> >
> >     http://schema.org/TableColumn ( or Dimension or something more
> generic)
> >
> > with the property
> >
> >     mapsToProperty - URL or schema.org property
> >
> > That should to the trick without mixing apples (tables) and oranges
> (table entries).
> >
> >
> > But in general, I strictly oppose the proposed extension, since it adds
> an unnecessary intermedia level. Putting in the proper markup directly in
> the body of the table is
> >
> > 1. cleaner,
> > 2. requires no special processing, and
> > 3. works in RDFa and Microdata without proprietary inferences.
> >
> > <table>
> >   <thead>
> >     <tr>
> >       <th>Image</th>
> >       <th>Name</th>
> >       <th>Year</th>
> >       <th>Technique</th>
> >       <th>Dimensions</th>
> >       <th>Gallery</th>
> >     </tr>
> >   </thead>
> > <tbody>
> >    <tr itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/Painting">
> >         <td><a itemprop="image" href="...URL">Image</a></td>
> >         <td itemprop="name">The Cry</td>
> >         ...
> >    </tr>
> > ...</tbody>
> > </table>
> >
> >
> > My strongest argument, however, is that most tables today are generated
> with loops from database content, so the HTML / template will contain the
> data markup in only one place anyway. So there is really no reason to add
> such an awkward, proprietary mechanism that mixes syntax and vocabulary.
> >
> >
> > Martin
> >
> >
> >
> > On Aug 14, 2013, at 2:47 PM, Dan Brickley wrote:
> >
> > > Re-fwd'ing this as Omar's mail didn't get distributed for some reason.
> > >
> > > Somewhat related, see also schema.org position paper to W3C Open Data
> > > on the Web workshop recently,
> > > http://www.w3.org/2013/04/odw/odw13_submission_53.pdf via
> > > http://www.w3.org/2013/04/odw/papers
> > >
> > > Dan
> > >
> > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > From: Omar Benjelloun (عمر بنجلون) <benjello@google.com>
> > > Date: 13 August 2013 22:04
> > > Subject: Proposal: Looking inside tables
> > > To: public-vocabs@w3.org
> > > Cc: Ramanathan Guha <guha@google.com>, Dan Brickley <danbri@google.com
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Many useful datasets on the Web take the form of tables. The goal of
> > > this proposal is to provide a simple, schema.org-friendly way to "look
> > > inside" these tables, and map their contents into triples.
> > >
> > > This is an early draft proposal developed at Google. We're seeking
> > > feedback from the community.
> > >
> > > The proposal is attached to this e-mail, and will be uploaded to the
> > > WebSchemas/SchemaDotOrgProposals page shortly.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > -Omar
> > > <Lookinginsidetables.html>
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > martin hepp
> > e-business & web science research group
> > universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen
> >
> > e-mail:  hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org
> > phone:   +49-(0)89-6004-4217
> > fax:     +49-(0)89-6004-4620
> > www:     http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
> >          http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal)
> > skype:   mfhepp
> > twitter: mfhepp
> >
> > Check out GoodRelations for E-Commerce on the Web of Linked Data!
> > =================================================================
> > * Project Main Page: http://purl.org/goodrelations/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> martin hepp
> e-business & web science research group
> universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen
>
> e-mail:  hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org
> phone:   +49-(0)89-6004-4217
> fax:     +49-(0)89-6004-4620
> www:     http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
>          http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal)
> skype:   mfhepp
> twitter: mfhepp
>
> Check out GoodRelations for E-Commerce on the Web of Linked Data!
> =================================================================
> * Project Main Page: http://purl.org/goodrelations/
>
>
>
>
Received on Monday, 2 September 2013 20:18:33 UTC

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