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Re: Semantically marking up a "checklist" or process

From: Aaron Bradley <aaranged@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 10:01:52 -0700
Message-ID: <CAMbipBvWyr5EsWUjLtEJ4sSvU+O9LHiSCLrw6WKVBBH7=fCw8g@mail.gmail.com>
To: Dan Brickley <danbri@google.com>
Cc: Martin Hepp <martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org>, Phil Barker <phil.barker@hw.ac.uk>, "public-vocabs@w3.org Vocabs" <public-vocabs@w3.org>, Guha Guha <guha@google.com>
Thanks Dan.

http://sdo-itemlist.appspot.com/ItemList and http://schema.org/ItemList are
identical.  Am I missing something?


On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 9:28 AM, Dan Brickley <danbri@google.com> wrote:

> Hi all
>
> I've made a test build of schema.org based on the draft schema below.
> Linked from http://www.w3.org/wiki/WebSchemas/ItemList
>
> Draft new version: http://schema.org/ItemList
>
> I have not followed every post in these threads, we probably need to
> tweak/iterate but this gives a concrete target for review.
>
> Thanks for all the energy on this,
>
> Dan
>
> On 13 September 2013 11:11, Martin Hepp <martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org>
> wrote:
> > Hi Phil,
> > all:
> >
> >> Hello
> >> There have been some discussions on the LRMI mail list[1] about
> educational courses that have some parallels with this. If you think of a
> generic educational course as a structured collection of learning
> resources, and consider that one way of structuring that collections is to
> say first you read this, then you attend event A, then event B, then you
> sit this test you'll perhaps see the commonality (nb other course
> structures exist!)
> >>
> >> My feeling is that it would be hard to do ordering with schema since A
> only comes before B in certain contexts yet schema has a global scope; on
> the other hand it is very easy to do ordering with other related
> technologies, e.g.  <ol><li>A</li><li>B</li></ol>
> >>
> >> Phil
> >>
> >> 1. "Raising the issue of collections..."
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/lrmi
> >>
> >
> > Thanks for the input. Attached, please find my third, improved proposal
> for representing ordered lists if items. It should now also suit your need
> for representing the order of courses in a collection of learning
> resources. The problem with order being relative to a particular context
> has been already supported by the previous proposal, by the way, since you
> can simply define two ItemList entities with differing orders for the same
> or an overlapping set of items.
> >
> > Here is what I changed:
> >
> > - renamed the property "reference" to "item" for brevity
> > - added "Thing" explicitly to the list of allowed types for the range
> > - added "previous" and "next" properties for cases where chaining is
> more appropriate than integer values
> >
> > I attach the proposal in the RDFa syntax accepted by Google tooling for
> schema.org.
> >
> > After checking https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/lrmi briefly, I
> would recommend not going down the type hierarchy of WebPage for the
> purposes, since ordered lists are a pattern of generic value. There is no
> need to root them in describing a Web page structure.
> >
> > I am busy theses days, but maybe someone else could create an official
> proposal in the W3C Wiki and add a few examples / use cases. I will be
> happy to take a look on respective examples once available.
> >
> > Best
> >
> > Martin
> >
> > <!-- ========================== -->
> > <!-- CHANGES TO EXISTING ELEMENTS -->
> > <!-- ========================== -->
> >
> > <!-- New range
> > <div typeof="rdf:Property" about="http://schema.org/itemListElement">
> >         <span>Domain: <a property="http://schema.org/domain" href="
> http://schema.org/ItemList">ItemList</a></span>
> >         <span>Range: <a property="http://schema.org/range" href="
> http://schema.org/Text">Text</a></span>
> >         <span>Range: <a property="http://schema.org/range" href="
> http://schema.org/ListItem">ListItem</a></span>
> > <!-- The following statement is semantically redundant, but should
> trigger a more useful list of allowed types "Text, ListItem, or Thing" -->
> >         <span>Range: <a property="http://schema.org/range" href="
> http://schema.org/Thing">Thing</a></span>
> >         ItemList
> > </div>
> >
> > <!-- ========================== -->
> > <!-- ADDITIONAL ELEMENTS -->
> > <!-- ========================== -->
> >
> > <div typeof="rdfs:Class" about="http://schema.org/ListItem">
> >         <span class="h" property="rdfs:label">ListItem</span>
> >         <span property="rdfs:comment">An list item, e.g. a step in a
> checklist or how-to description.</span>
> >         <span>Subclass of: <a property="rdfs:subClassOf" href="
> http://schema.org/StructuredValue">StructuredValue</a></span>
> > </div>
> >
> > <div typeof="rdf:Property" about="http://schema.org/itemPosition">
> >         <span class="h" property="rdfs:label">itemPosition</span>
> >         <span property="rdfs:comment">The position of the item in an
> ordered list (1 = first, 2 = second, ...).</span>
> >         <span>Domain: <a property="http://schema.org/domain" href="
> http://schema.org/ListItem">ListItem</a></span>
> >         <span>Range: <a property="http://schema.org/range" href="
> http://schema.org/Number">Number</a></span>
> > </div>
> >
> > <div typeof="rdf:Property" about="http://schema.org/item">
> >         <span class="h" property="rdfs:label">item</span>
> >         <span property="rdfs:comment">The entity represented by the
> entry in the list (e.g. the artist, song, ...).</span>
> >         <span>Domain: <a property="http://schema.org/domain" href="
> http://schema.org/ListItem">ListItem</a></span>
> >         <span>Range: <a property="http://schema.org/range" href="
> http://schema.org/Thing">Thing</a></span>
> > </div>
> >
> > <div typeof="rdf:Property" about="http://schema.org/previous">
> >         <span class="h" property="rdfs:label">previous</span>
> >         <span property="rdfs:comment">A link to the ListItem that
> preceeds the current one.</span>
> >         <span>Domain: <a property="http://schema.org/domain" href="
> http://schema.org/ListItem">ListItem</a></span>
> >         <span>Domain: <a property="http://schema.org/range" href="
> http://schema.org/ListItem">ListItem</a></span>
> > </div>
> >
> > <div typeof="rdf:Property" about="http://schema.org/next">
> >         <span class="h" property="rdfs:label">next</span>
> >         <span property="rdfs:comment">A link to the ListItem that
> follows the current one.</span>
> >         <span>Domain: <a property="http://schema.org/domain" href="
> http://schema.org/ListItem">ListItem</a></span>
> >         <span>Domain: <a property="http://schema.org/range" href="
> http://schema.org/ListItem">ListItem</a></span>
> > </div>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sep 13, 2013, at 10:39 AM, Phil Barker wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On 12/09/2013 17:03, TallyFy wrote:
> >>> I presume this is not in scope, but it's nice to have. The markup that
> encapsulates a list, could that have comesAfter or comesBefore or relatedTo
> - or equivalents? Kept simple, this is a set of declared instances, not too
> far from a set of hyperlinks - since we should be free to link lists like
> we link anchor text in HTML.
> >>>
> >>> The aggregation problem of parsing, indexing and ranking is unrelated
> here, but FYI - we intend to record the time and number of list executions
> on Tallyfy i.e. "How to get a Chile visa for British citizens" took on
> average 8 days, has 5 steps, 600 people have "done it" and step 4 took the
> longest average time of 4 days.  For us, it will provide inputs to rank and
> evaluate lists.
> >>>
> >>> Amit
> >>> http://tallyfy.com
> >>> On Wednesday, 11 September 2013 at 18:49, Justin Boyan wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I think we're basically in agreement - broaden the range of
> itemListElement to Thing, and document on that property that ListItem
> should be used when explicit ordering or numbering is required.  On
> ListItem, I prefer the property name "item" to "represents" -- the latter
> seems confusable with "sameAs".
> >>>>
> >>>> jb
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 12:57 PM, Martin Hepp <
> martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org> wrote:
> >>>>> Hi Justin:
> >>>>> On Sep 11, 2013, at 5:51 PM, Justin Boyan wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > The current proposal is ambiguous about whether the ListItem is
> the item itself, or whether the ListItem.represents is the item.
> >>>>> > Here are two options which I think would be clearer:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > Option 1. Make the range of itemListElement be Thing.  Create a
> new StructuredValue called NumberedItem which pairs a Number and a Thing.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The ListItem is the ListItem ;-) Actually, it is the same as the
> NumberedItem type you propose below. If you want to model an entity linked
> to the list item (i.e. a song, artist, place, ...), then you can define
> that externally or within the list.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We could broaden the range of itemListElement to Thing so that a
> list can contain three types of entries:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> a) untyped, pure text entries (as it is in the current version)
> >>>>> b) a structured value that holds a position and a link to another
> entity (my original proposal) or
> >>>>> c) any other entity without an order (basically your proposal; but
> then it becomes a unordered list).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > With this schema, representing a list without numbers can be done
> with a flat model:
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > { "@context" : "http://schema.org",
> >>>>> >   "@type" : "ItemList",
> >>>>> >   "itemListElement" : [ {"@type" : "Movie", "name" : "Jaws"},
> {"@type" : "Movie", "name" : "Bulworth"} ] }
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> Note that this list has not deterministic order. While JSON-LD and
> Microdata carry an order of the elements in the syntax, the order can be
> lost when the data is translated by RDF tooling.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > And the extra hierarchy only comes into play when numbers are
> required:
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > { "@context" : "http://schema.org",
> >>>>> >   "@type" : "ItemList",
> >>>>> >   "itemListElement" : [ {"@type" : "NumberedItem", "number" : 1,
> "item" : {"@type" : "Movie", "name" : "Jaws"}},
> >>>>> >                         {"@type" : "NumberedItem", "number" : 2,
> "item" : {"@type" : "Movie", "name" : Bulworth"}} ] }
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> This does not work, because you assign the number to the item
> instead of assigning it to the item in the context of the list.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > Option 2. Add a new property for the item position directly to
> schema.org/Thing. Call it, say, "rank" -- maybe it finds some other
> general applications besides item lists.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > { "@context" : "http://schema.org",
> >>>>> >   "@type" : "ItemList",
> >>>>> >   "itemListElement" : [{"@type" : "Movie", "rank" : 1, "name" :
> "Jaws"}, {"@type" : "Movie", "rank": 2, "name" : "Bulworth"}] }
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > What do you think? I think I prefer Option 1.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> This has the same problem.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In fact, as far as I can see, the original proposal caters for all
> of these cases, except for the case where you want an unordered list.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Martin
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > Justin
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 11:34 AM, Martin Hepp <
> martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org> wrote:
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > > My question was about *numbered* unstructured steps... which I
> think is actually the use case that started the thread.
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > Then I ListItem.name should do the trick.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > > Martin
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > > --------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> > > martin hepp
> >>>>> > > e-business & web science research group
> >>>>> > > universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > > e-mail:  hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org
> >>>>> > > phone:   +49-(0)89-6004-4217
> >>>>> > > fax:     +49-(0)89-6004-4620
> >>>>> > > www:     http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
> >>>>> > >          http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal)
> >>>>> > > skype:   mfhepp
> >>>>> > > twitter: mfhepp
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > > Check out GoodRelations for E-Commerce on the Web of Linked Data!
> >>>>> > > =================================================================
> >>>>> > > * Project Main Page: http://purl.org/goodrelations/
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > --------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> > martin hepp
> >>>>> > e-business & web science research group
> >>>>> > universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > e-mail:  hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org
> >>>>> > phone:   +49-(0)89-6004-4217
> >>>>> > fax:     +49-(0)89-6004-4620
> >>>>> > www:     http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
> >>>>> >          http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal)
> >>>>> > skype:   mfhepp
> >>>>> > twitter: mfhepp
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > Check out GoodRelations for E-Commerce on the Web of Linked Data!
> >>>>> > =================================================================
> >>>>> > * Project Main Page: http://purl.org/goodrelations/
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> martin hepp
> >>>>> e-business & web science research group
> >>>>> universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen
> >>>>>
> >>>>> e-mail:  hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org
> >>>>> phone:   +49-(0)89-6004-4217
> >>>>> fax:     +49-(0)89-6004-4620
> >>>>> www:     http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
> >>>>>          http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal)
> >>>>> skype:   mfhepp
> >>>>> twitter: mfhepp
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Check out GoodRelations for E-Commerce on the Web of Linked Data!
> >>>>> =================================================================
> >>>>> * Project Main Page: http://purl.org/goodrelations/
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> <http://www.icbl.hw.ac.uk/~philb/>
> >>
> >>
> >> Sunday Times Scottish University of the Year 2011-2013
> >> Top in the UK for student experience
> >> Fourth university in the UK and top in Scotland (National Student
> Survey 2012)
> >>
> >> We invite research leaders and ambitious early career researchers to
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> >>
> >> Heriot-Watt University is a Scottish charity registered under charity
> number SC000278.
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > martin hepp
> > e-business & web science research group
> > universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen
> >
> > e-mail:  hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org
> > phone:   +49-(0)89-6004-4217
> > fax:     +49-(0)89-6004-4620
> > www:     http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
> >          http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal)
> > skype:   mfhepp
> > twitter: mfhepp
> >
> > Check out GoodRelations for E-Commerce on the Web of Linked Data!
> > =================================================================
> > * Project Main Page: http://purl.org/goodrelations/
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Received on Thursday, 17 October 2013 17:02:20 UTC

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