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Re: Proposal: Looking inside tables

From: Martin Hepp <martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 14:57:15 +0200
Cc: Dan Brickley <danbri@google.com>, W3C Web Schemas Task Force <public-vocabs@w3.org>
Message-Id: <59DDAAA6-791C-4D60-84CC-332C5418F9ED@ebusiness-unibw.org>
To: Cosmin Paun <cpaun88@gmail.com>
Dear Cosmin:
Thanks for pointing this out! As I wrote towards the end of my message: I think we should not add conceptual elements that are mere syntactical aids.

As for a proposed table mechanism, I think this is taking a fundamentally wrong direction, since tables are mostly generated by iterating over database contents within a loop. Then, you typically use a template language (like Jinja2, Liquid, H20, ...), where adding the markup for each row is straightforward, e.g.:

<table>
{% for item in items %}
<tr itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/Painting">
   <td itemprop="name">{{item.name}}</td>
   <td><a itemprop="image" href="{{item.image_url}}">Image link</a></td>
...
</tr>
{% endfor %}
</table>

And since HTTP supports compression, the repetition of markup for properties and type information will hardly be noticeable.

So I strongly suggest to not implement the proposal.

Martin


On Aug 20, 2013, at 2:24 PM, Cosmin Paun wrote:

> Dear Martin,
> 
> http://schema.org/Table already exists as subtype of
> http://schema.org/WebPageElement
> 
> Perhaps all the work should be done around this class.
> 
> Cosmin
> 
> On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 11:52 AM, Martin Hepp
> <martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> just from the top of my head - if you really want to add such a meta-data extension, why don't you create a type
>> 
>>    http://schema.org/Table
>> 
>> with the properties
>> 
>>    typeOfEntries - URL of schema.org type
>>    column - columns of the table (optional, since directly available from the HTML tree)
>> 
>> and a second type
>> 
>>    http://schema.org/TableColumn ( or Dimension or something more generic)
>> 
>> with the property
>> 
>>    mapsToProperty - URL or schema.org property
>> 
>> That should to the trick without mixing apples (tables) and oranges (table entries).
>> 
>> 
>> But in general, I strictly oppose the proposed extension, since it adds an unnecessary intermedia level. Putting in the proper markup directly in the body of the table is
>> 
>> 1. cleaner,
>> 2. requires no special processing, and
>> 3. works in RDFa and Microdata without proprietary inferences.
>> 
>> <table>
>>  <thead>
>>    <tr>
>>      <th>Image</th>
>>      <th>Name</th>
>>      <th>Year</th>
>>      <th>Technique</th>
>>      <th>Dimensions</th>
>>      <th>Gallery</th>
>>    </tr>
>>  </thead>
>> <tbody>
>>   <tr itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/Painting">
>>        <td><a itemprop="image" href="...URL">Image</a></td>
>>        <td itemprop="name">The Cry</td>
>>        ...
>>   </tr>
>> ...</tbody>
>> </table>
>> 
>> 
>> My strongest argument, however, is that most tables today are generated with loops from database content, so the HTML / template will contain the data markup in only one place anyway. So there is really no reason to add such an awkward, proprietary mechanism that mixes syntax and vocabulary.
>> 
>> 
>> Martin
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Aug 14, 2013, at 2:47 PM, Dan Brickley wrote:
>> 
>>> Re-fwd'ing this as Omar's mail didn't get distributed for some reason.
>>> 
>>> Somewhat related, see also schema.org position paper to W3C Open Data
>>> on the Web workshop recently,
>>> http://www.w3.org/2013/04/odw/odw13_submission_53.pdf via
>>> http://www.w3.org/2013/04/odw/papers
>>> 
>>> Dan
>>> 
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Omar Benjelloun (عمر بنجلون) <benjello@google.com>
>>> Date: 13 August 2013 22:04
>>> Subject: Proposal: Looking inside tables
>>> To: public-vocabs@w3.org
>>> Cc: Ramanathan Guha <guha@google.com>, Dan Brickley <danbri@google.com>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> Many useful datasets on the Web take the form of tables. The goal of
>>> this proposal is to provide a simple, schema.org-friendly way to "look
>>> inside" these tables, and map their contents into triples.
>>> 
>>> This is an early draft proposal developed at Google. We're seeking
>>> feedback from the community.
>>> 
>>> The proposal is attached to this e-mail, and will be uploaded to the
>>> WebSchemas/SchemaDotOrgProposals page shortly.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> -Omar
>>> <Lookinginsidetables.html>
>> 
>> --------------------------------------------------------
>> martin hepp
>> e-business & web science research group
>> universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen
>> 
>> e-mail:  hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org
>> phone:   +49-(0)89-6004-4217
>> fax:     +49-(0)89-6004-4620
>> www:     http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
>>         http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal)
>> skype:   mfhepp
>> twitter: mfhepp
>> 
>> Check out GoodRelations for E-Commerce on the Web of Linked Data!
>> =================================================================
>> * Project Main Page: http://purl.org/goodrelations/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 

--------------------------------------------------------
martin hepp
e-business & web science research group
universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen

e-mail:  hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org
phone:   +49-(0)89-6004-4217
fax:     +49-(0)89-6004-4620
www:     http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
         http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal)
skype:   mfhepp 
twitter: mfhepp

Check out GoodRelations for E-Commerce on the Web of Linked Data!
=================================================================
* Project Main Page: http://purl.org/goodrelations/
Received on Tuesday, 20 August 2013 12:57:51 UTC

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