W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-vocabs@w3.org > August 2013

Re: Ease of adoption

From: Amanda Vizedom <amanda.vizedom@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 13:51:48 -0400
Message-ID: <CAEmngXvPu+BJV_zpXat-AWZbrHv4QPqpvpS=zceHFkGZe=a=4g@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Dawson, Laura" <Laura.Dawson@bowker.com>
Cc: "public-vocabs@w3.org" <public-vocabs@w3.org>
Laura,

Not *exactly* what you describe, but closely related: Have you seen the
prototype "Cloudshelf" semantic e-reader that Eric Freese presented at
SemTechBiz in June?  It most directly addressed the second of your three
missing things. However, its functions included automated markup and
user-added markup, as well as connection between the marked up content and
knowledge sources such as Wikipedia. A step in the right direction, I think?

Best,
Amanda Vizedom


On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 12:39 PM, Dawson, Laura <Laura.Dawson@bowker.com>wrote:

>  What I've been looking for is an interface that allows a "web monkey" or
> home user to do this…in book files. To mark up ebooks semantically, and
> have search engines ingest the files in their indexes, would be a huge leap
> forward. It would help search, it would help books, it would help society
> as a whole.
>
>  But we are missing three things in that: the Wordpress-y like interface
> that would allow this; the ability for an epub or mobi file to handle this
> markup without breaking; and the willingness of the book market to
> experiment. (To wit: Authors Guild lawsuit against Google Books regarding
> indexing and abstracting. Walled garden ebook environments. Etc.)
>
>   From: Wes Turner <wes.turner@gmail.com>
> Date: Monday, July 29, 2013 12:33 PM
> To: Martin Hepp <martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org>
> Cc: Dave Pawson <dave.pawson@gmail.com>, "public-vocabs@w3.org" <
> public-vocabs@w3.org>, Dan Brickley <danbri@google.com>
> Subject: Re: Ease of adoption
> Resent-From: <public-vocabs@w3.org>
> Resent-Date: Monday, July 29, 2013 12:34 PM
>
>   +1. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schema.org
> On Jul 29, 2013 10:46 AM, "Martin Hepp" <martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Here is my suggestion for a new intro:
>>
>> "Many individuals and organizations use the Web to articulate their
>> messages: companies offer products, newspapers present news, bloggers share
>> opinions, etc.
>> Historically, the most relevant audience for a Web site were humans -
>> they found your Web site via a search engine and then consumed the
>> information from your site directly in their Web browsers.
>>
>> Now, there are more and more digital devices between a Web site and its
>> target audience, and they cover a bigger share of the process of using
>> information from the Web. For instance, nowadays, the most relevant results
>> in a search engine are often not "main" pages, but deep, detailed links
>> into a Web site.
>>
>> As a consequence, the decision for or against a product, restaurant,
>> newspaper, etc., -- in other words: your offer --, is made already in the
>> search results returned by the Web search engine. The better the search
>> engine understands the information inside your pages, the better it can
>> select, summarize, and present it to the target audiences.
>>
>> Schema.org is a standard for marking-up the information in your Web
>> content in a way that search engines and other computer-based services can
>> understand. In database terminology, the structures used to represent
>> information as data are called a "schema". Schema.org defines a common
>> schema for the interface between your Web content and search engines. It
>> allows search engines and other services to better extract and understand
>> your site.
>>
>> Why bother? Site owners spend a lot of effort for optimizing the user
>> experience of their site for human visitors, with stylesheets, icons, font
>> choices, etc. Schema.org is the next step: Optimizing the user experience
>> for your site when it is presented to your target audience by a search
>> engine, a mobile application, a browser extension, or any new digital
>> intermediary that may be in between."
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Martin Hepp
>>
>> PS: I offer this text under Creative Commons CC BY 3.0 ;-)
>>
>> On Jul 29, 2013, at 5:17 PM, Dave Pawson wrote:
>>
>> > On 29 July 2013 15:23, Wes Turner <wes.turner@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Jul 29, 2013 3:53 AM, "Dave Pawson" <dave.pawson@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Reading http://schema.org/docs/gs.html (IMHO) I don't see the
>> salesmans
>> >>> version,
>> >>> a trainers view of the ideas behind schema.org.
>> >>>
>> >>> Has anyone started to think of how a web monkey or home user might be
>> >>> persuaded
>> >>> to adopt microdata for their own usage?  E.g. taking the user
>> perspective?
>> >>> Dan and others may well find their way round schema.org, but it
>> isn't so
>> >>> easy
>> >>> to get started when a new user comes across it?
>> >>
>> >> When you say "taking the user perspective", what exactly do you mean by
>> >> that? How are you suggesting the pitch should be modified in order to
>> reach
>> >> the target audience?
>> >
>> > IMHO that says it, succinctly and for a knowledgeable audience.
>> >  If you look at intro type books (dummys ... etc), there is much more
>> > of a sell there. Persuasion as to why this tech is useful for them,
>> > meets an objective the reader may have?
>> >
>> > E.g. "A collection of schemas"... WTF is a schema...?
>> >
>> > " html tags, that webmasters can use to markup their pages in ways
>> > recognized by major search providers."
>> >  Oh - that's not me then, I'm not a webmaster...
>> >
>> > I.e just the slant?
>> >
>> > Does that make sense?
>> >
>> > regards DaveP
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> schema.org has a fairly great description:
>> >>
>> >> """
>> >> What is Schema.org?
>> >> This site provides a collection of schemas, i.e., html tags, that
>> webmasters
>> >> can use to markup their pages in ways recognized by major search
>> providers.
>> >> Search engines including Bing, Google, Yahoo! and Yandex rely on this
>> markup
>> >> to improve the display of search results, making it easier for people
>> to
>> >> find the right web pages.
>> >> Many sites are generated from structured data, which is often stored in
>> >> databases. When this data is formatted into HTML, it becomes very
>> difficult
>> >> to recover the original structured data. Many applications, especially
>> >> search engines, can benefit greatly from direct access to this
>> structured
>> >> data. On-page markup enables search engines to understand the
>> information on
>> >> web pages and provide richer search results in order to make it easier
>> for
>> >> users to find relevant information on the web. Markup can also enable
>> new
>> >> tools and applications that make use of the structure.
>> >> A shared markup vocabulary makes it easier for webmasters to decide on
>> a
>> >> markup schema and get the maximum benefit for their efforts. So, in the
>> >> spirit of sitemaps.org, search engines have come together to provide a
>> >> shared collection of schemas that webmasters can use.
>> >> """
>> >>
>> >> schema.org/docs/gs.html has the following heading structure:
>> >>
>> >> Getting started with schema.org
>> >> * How to mark up your content using Microdata
>> >>   * Why use Microdata? [what about RDFa, these days]
>> >> * Using the schema.org vocabulary
>> >> * Advanced-topic: machine-understandable versions of information
>> >>
>> >>> The other side of this is the breadth of options? How might the
>> >>> increasingly large
>> >>> number of terms be 'filtered' for use by  the man in the street to
>> >>> optimise his/her
>> >>> chances of a search engine result?
>> >>>
>> >>> I think this aspect could and should be given consideration as the
>> size of
>> >>> the main term set increases.
>> >>>
>> >>> Just a thought. Is there work being done in this area?
>> >>
>> >> There is a fair amount of research regarding meta tag stuffing in
>> regards to
>> >> SEO.
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> regards
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Dave Pawson
>> >>> XSLT XSL-FO FAQ.
>> >>> Docbook FAQ.
>> >>> http://www.dpawson.co.uk
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> IMHO, from an en-US perspective, the copy text for the schema.orgOntology:
>> >>
>> >> * is fairly verbose
>> >> * could have a few more bullet points
>> >> * could be updated to reference the supported formats
>> >>  (RDF/XML, Turtle, JSON-LD, N3, NTriples, HTML5 Microdata, and *RDFa*)
>> >> * could more directly allude to schema.rdfs.org and
>> >> http://schema.rdfs.org/tools.html
>> >> * could link to topical Wikipedia pages
>> >>
>> >> Wikipedia pages
>> >>
>> >> * /Linked_data
>> >> * /Semantic_web
>> >> * /Microdata_(HTML)
>> >>
>> >> I collected a number of Wikipedia links that may be useful for, as you
>> put
>> >> it, teh "web monkey and home user" here:
>> >>
>> http://www.reddit.com/r/semanticweb/comments/1dvakc/schemaorgdataset_standard_schema_for_linked_data/
>> >>
>> >> Please feel free to share and incorporate this research.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Dave Pawson
>> > XSLT XSL-FO FAQ.
>> > Docbook FAQ.
>> > http://www.dpawson.co.uk
>> >
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------
>> martin hepp
>> e-business & web science research group
>> universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen
>>
>> e-mail:  hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org
>> phone:   +49-(0)89-6004-4217
>> fax:     +49-(0)89-6004-4620
>> www:     http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
>>          http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal)
>> skype:   mfhepp
>> twitter: mfhepp
>>
>> Check out GoodRelations for E-Commerce on the Web of Linked Data!
>> =================================================================
>> * Project Main Page: http://purl.org/goodrelations/
>>
>>
>>
>>
Received on Thursday, 1 August 2013 09:20:47 UTC

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