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Re: vocab idea: SatiricalArticle

From: Tom Morris <tfmorris@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 14:21:44 -0400
Message-ID: <CAE9vqEGw_VwhwHVQkSGvbTYd437B6pcvBT7fVLYKg_S-8d=SRQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Evain, Jean-Pierre" <evain@ebu.ch>
Cc: Dan Brickley <danbri@danbri.org>, "Sandhaus, Evan" <sandhes@nytimes.com>, Andreas Gebhard <Andreas.Gebhard@gettyimages.com>, <elderos@yandex-team.ru>, "Olson, Peter" <polson@marvel.com>, PDEC Research <lists@personaldataecosystem.org>, "public-vocabs@w3.org" <public-vocabs@w3.org>
Both lists seem to include all kinds of things that I wouldn't
consider to be genres at all.  The EBU list explicitly disclaims this
weakness, but the IPTC list isn't any better with a mixture of media
formats (e.g. text vs voice), temporal characteristics, etc along with
the genres.

It seems undesirable to carry this confusion forward to a new scheme.

Tom

On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 1:57 PM, Evain, Jean-Pierre <evain@ebu.ch> wrote:
> I forgot to mention the rdf version of these: http://www.ebu.ch/metadata/ontologies/skos/ebu_ContentGenreCS.rdf
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Evain, Jean-Pierre [mailto:evain@ebu.ch]
> Sent: mardi, 8. mai 2012 19:52
> To: 'Dan Brickley'
> Cc: Sandhaus, Evan; Andreas Gebhard;  ; Olson, Peter; PDEC Research; public-vocabs@w3.org
> Subject: RE: vocab idea: SatiricalArticle
>
> Yes, you can use the URL to the CS plus a pointer to #termId or a #termName from http://www.ebu.ch/metadata/cs/ebu_ContentGenreCS.xml
>
> This is a superset of the TVA contentCS/genre list but I can put the TVA original list there. There are already many others from TVA otherwise not coverd by EBU superset.
>
> The between lists can be found here: http://www.ebu.ch/metadata/cs/web/ebu_ContentGenreCS_Mapping_p.xml.html
>
> But actually this means that many similar lists can provide alternative contextual controlled vocabularies.
>
> JP
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dan Brickley [mailto:danbri@danbri.org]
> Sent: mardi, 8. mai 2012 19:45
> To: Evain, Jean-Pierre
> Cc: Sandhaus, Evan; Andreas Gebhard;  ; Olson, Peter; PDEC Research; public-vocabs@w3.org
> Subject: Re: vocab idea: SatiricalArticle
>
>
>
>
>
> On 8 May 2012, at 19:41, "Evain, Jean-Pierre" <evain@ebu.ch> wrote:
>
>> You actually might as well go for TV-Anytime where you can find satire and broken comedy, which are actually more programme than news genre, and are furthermore supported by BBC and UK DTG.
>
> Can you recommend some URL patterns for these?
>
> Dan
>
>
>> JP
>> ________________________________________
>> From: Dan Brickley [danbri@danbri.org]
>> Sent: 08 May 2012 19:38
>> To: Sandhaus, Evan
>> Cc: Andreas Gebhard;  ; Olson, Peter; PDEC Research; public-vocabs@w3.org
>> Subject: Re: vocab idea: SatiricalArticle
>>
>> On 8 May 2012, at 19:34, "Sandhaus, Evan" <sandhes@nytimes.com<mailto:sandhes@nytimes.com>> wrote:
>>
>> +1 for using the IPTC Controlled Vocabulary for News Genre.
>>
>> The vocabulary can be found in human readable form here: http://cv.iptc.org/newscodes/genre/ and in RDF/XML here http://cv.iptc.org/Requester?scheme=genre&format=rdf
>>
>> And yes, there are URLs for all of these properties.
>>
>> There is currently no item in this controlled vocabulary for 'Satirical Article,' however, we can likely remedy that by June.
>>
>> Great, let's go for it then. I'll add a genre example with these. Any chance of live data eg NYT?
>>
>> Dan
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Evan
>> --
>> Evan Sandhaus
>> Lead Architect, Semantic Platforms
>> The New York Times Company
>> @kansandhaus
>>
>> On May 8, 2012, at 12:16 PM, Dan Brickley wrote:
>>
>> On 4 May 2012 15:22, Andreas Gebhard <Andreas.Gebhard@gettyimages.com<mailto:Andreas.Gebhard@gettyimages.com>> wrote:
>> Not a bad idea. "genre" points to a controlled vocabulary maintained by the IPTC and it wouldn't be too hard to discuss the addition of (comedy|satire|etc.) to that.
>>
>> Thanks all. I agree that 'genre' in this case would be a more elegant
>> express things here. In general I'm not against having simple
>> low-content types, since both microdata and rdfa offer nice syntactic
>> support for them. But yes definitely pointing into an IPTC list of
>> genres, 'comedy' vs 'satire' etc. would be great.
>>
>> I've just sent around a new ExternalEnumerations doc, see
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vocabs/2012May/0009.html
>> ... maybe we can work through the detail of this for 'genre'? Do you
>> have the relevant IPTC URLs, ideally some that are well-used in some
>> public datasets?
>>
>> cheers,
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> Andreas
>>
>> On May 1, 2012, at 23:41 ,   wrote:
>>
>> schema.org/Article<http://schema.org/Article> has 'genre' property, cannot we use it for this purpose?
>> I think it's a bad practice to create a new type until it has its own properties
>> --
>> Egor
>>
>> 02.05.2012, 06:13, "Olson, Peter" <polson@marvel.com<mailto:polson@marvel.com>>:
>> In an attempt to surgically extract all humor from this subject...wouldn't satire be a flag as part of a larger article type? I can maybe reach out - I have some contacts in the comedy world.
>>
>> - Peter
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: PDEC Research [mailto:lists@personaldataecosystem.org]
>> Sent: Sun 4/29/2012 8:40 PM
>> To: Dan Brickley
>> Cc: public-vocabs@w3.org<mailto:public-vocabs@w3.org>
>> Subject: Re: vocab idea: SatiricalArticle
>>
>> You could just add a parody bit. Then if the whole content is odd, the processor can throw a parody exception.
>>
>> On Apr 29, 2012, at 1:43 PM, Dan Brickley <danbri@danbri.org<mailto:danbri@danbri.org>> wrote:
>>
>> (disclaimer: thinking out loud)
>>
>> A smart-enough-to-know-better friend who shall remain nameless just
>> re-shared this link, having given it a quick check over (by searching)
>> and it looked real enough. At first glance it was Onion-esque but
>> wasn't obviously one of theirs, so got re-shared:
>>
>> http://www.freewoodpost.com/2012/03/13/mitt-romney-i-can-relate-to-black-people-my-ancestors-once-owned-slaves/
>>
>> The article is completely false, as
>> http://www.freewoodpost.com/disclaimer/ indicates. If you view
>> source, you see itemtype="http://schema.org/Article" though (and a
>> load more metadata, ogp etc).
>>
>> I was wondering whether an addition such as
>> http://schema.org/SatiricalArticle could ever get traction.
>>
>> My initial conclusion is 'no', ... since most of the obvious
>> applications of 'SatiricalArticle' would likely slow the viral spread
>> of fake outrageous news around the Web, and so get little support from
>> publishers like the above, or
>> http://www.landoverbaptist.org/ http://christwire.org/
>> http://www.theonion.com/ http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/ etc. But you
>> never know, there might be some other incentives (e.g. disclaimers?)
>> that could support such an idea.
>>
>> So I thought I'd float the suggestion. If anyone here happens to know
>> such publishers, I'm curious of their perspective. Would a
>> machine-readable indicator of 'satire' be interesting to any of them?
>> Presumably they get much of their traffic from controversy caused by
>> reposting shocking "news". Of course there's always scope for that
>> same metadata to be created by third parties, but that's an old old
>> story (http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-PICS-labels/ etc).
>>
>> cheers,
>>
>> Dan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Received on Tuesday, 8 May 2012 18:22:15 GMT

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