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Re: Schema.org and nested items

From: Jocelyn Fournier | WIKTIK <jocelyn.fournier@wiktik.com>
Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2011 21:35:22 +0100
Message-ID: <4EDE7C8A.8030708@wiktik.com>
To: public-vocabs@w3.org
CC: Daniel Dulitz <daniel@google.com>, Aaron Bradley <aaranged@yahoo.com>
Hi again,

I've just figured out if I change the page to a "Person" one, I will not 
be able anymore to provide the breadcrumb information which is indeed an 
information about the structure of the page, and is the part of "Person" 
type.

I don't really know the importance of this kind of information, but it 
goes against the Schema.org rule "In general, the more content you mark 
up, the better."

By the way, about the G+ button do you know why despite a proper image 
schema.org markup (I think), the G+ share on this kind of page : 
http://www.wiktik.com/profil/jocelyn-fournier-30 doesn't generate a 
correct thumb image ?


Thanks,
   Jocelyn




Le 06/12/11 21:23, Jocelyn Fournier a écrit :
> Hi Daniel,
>
>
> Thanks for your answer !
> So if I understand well, for example for this page :
>
> http://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/richsnippets?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wiktik.com%2Fprofil%2Fjocelyn-fournier-30&view=
>
>
> you would change the ProfilePage about a Person to a Person page directly ?
>
>
> And what about this kind of page :
>
> http://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/richsnippets?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wiktik.com%2Fentreprise%2Fwiktik-2+&view=
>
>
> Should I completely remove the ItemPage property and move the
> LocalBusiness property directly on the HTML tag ?
>
> More generally, should we use ItemPage only if we want to tag an item
> which is not yet explicitly described in schema.org vocabulary ?
>
>
>
> Thanks a lot for your help,
> Jocelyn
>
>
>
> Le 06/12/11 19:26, Daniel Dulitz a écrit :
>> I'd love for there to be more discussion on this; the G+ docs were
>> written as they were at my direction.
>>
>> If a page is fundamentally about a single entity, defining the item at
>> page scope makes that fact unambiguous.
>>
>> Defining the item at html level allows properties to be defined either
>> in the head or the body (some in one, others in another), which can be
>> handy when a site already uses e.g. OGP but has more specific
>> information already in the body.
>>
>> Sorry, I can't explain why there is both Person and ProfilePage. I hope
>> we won't have LocalBusinessPage, RestaurantPage, etc. :-)
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 17:03, Jocelyn Fournier
>> <jocelyn.fournier@googlemail.com
>> <mailto:jocelyn.fournier@googlemail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I finally found why I initially tagged the <html> element instead of
>> the body.
>>
>> It's the recommandation given in the G+ button Customize +Snippet :
>>
>> http://www.google.com/__webmasters/+1/button/
>> <http://www.google.com/webmasters/+1/button/>
>>
>> I'd say I'm now a little bit confused about how to properly tag a
>> webpage...
>> It seems they recommand to put for example the
>> http://schema.org/Person directly on <html>, but in this case what's
>> the purpose of http://schema.org/ProfilePage ?
>> Any help from a schema.org <http://schema.org> guru, please ? :D
>>
>>
>> Thanks and regards,
>>
>> Jocelyn Fournier
>>
>>
>> Le 14/11/11 19:26, Aaron Bradley a écrit :
>>
>> Hmm. I've seen<body> declared as itemscope before (and I use
>> this to declare itemtype="WebPage") but I honestly don't know if
>> the DOM model permits marking up the<html> tag itself. On the
>> other hand, I've replicated some of your code and it does seem
>> to validate in the linter (http://linter.structured-__data.org/
>> <http://linter.structured-data.org/>). Regarding the failure to
>> produce a likely rich snippet, this could either be your code,
>> or the tool's notoriously parsimonious generation of actual rich
>> snippet previews.
>>
>>
>> Note this comment from Google Employee Jenny Murphy on someone
>> using a similar construction:
>>
>> "A div is a better place to put schema.org <http://schema.org>
>> markup than the html element. It's designed to be applied to visible
>> contents of your page so as a result you don't need to put it any
>> further back than the<body> element."
>> http://www.google.com/support/__forum/p/Webmasters/thread?tid=__75bd26a38767e0cc&hl=en
>>
>> <http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Webmasters/thread?tid=75bd26a38767e0cc&hl=en>
>>
>>
>> And again here:
>>
>> "Next, the schema.org <http://schema.org> markup should be
>> applied to visible elements on the page. This means
>> you should add them to existing elements that are part of the page's
>> body (do not create new HTML elements in most cases). The root-most
>> element you can apply them to is the<body> start tag."
>> http://www.google.com/support/__forum/p/Webmasters/thread?tid=__425b378f168b4bca&hl=en
>>
>> <http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Webmasters/thread?tid=425b378f168b4bca&hl=en>
>>
>>
>> You might do well to check out Mark Pilgrim's chapter on
>> microdata on "Dive Into HTML5" which has an entire section
>> labeled "Marking Up People":
>> http://diveintohtml5.ep.io/__extensibility.html
>> <http://diveintohtml5.ep.io/extensibility.html>
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>> Aaron Bradley
>>
>> __________________________________
>> From: Jocelyn Fournier<jocelyn.fournier@__googlemail.com
>> <mailto:jocelyn.fournier@googlemail.com>>
>> To: public-vocabs@w3.org <mailto:public-vocabs@w3.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2011 4:44:07 PM
>> Subject: Schema.org and nested items
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Initially, my "profile" pages was described with only a
>> http://schema.org/person itemtype and all the needed
>> information inside.
>> The google rich snippet testing tool was corrected
>> recognizing my tags, and was displaying for example the
>> picture of the person.
>>
>>
>> E.g. :
>>
>> <html itemscope="itemscope"
>> itemtype="http://schema.org/__Person
>> <http://schema.org/Person>";>
>> [...]
>> </html>
>>
>> However, I've recently changed the structure of my pages to
>> do something more logical (at least for me) :
>>
>>
>> <html itemscope="itemscope"
>> itemtype="http://schema.org/__ProfilePage
>> <http://schema.org/ProfilePage>";>
>> [...]
>> <div itemprop="about" itemscope="itemscope"
>> itemtype="http://schema.org/__Person
>> <http://schema.org/Person>";>
>> [...]
>> </div>
>> [...]
>> </html>
>>
>> The structure is properly recognized by google rich snippets
>> testing tool, but it doesn't display any excerpt :
>>
>> http://www.google.com/__webmasters/tools/richsnippets?__url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wiktik.__com%2Fprofil%2Flea-__bourratiere-47&view=
>>
>> <http://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/richsnippets?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wiktik.com%2Fprofil%2Flea-bourratiere-47&view=>
>>
>>
>> I'm doing something wrong, or it's just the rich snippets
>> tool which is not able to render it properly ?
>>
>>
>>
>> Last question :
>>
>> Would it more sense to write this :
>>
>> <html itemscope="itemscope"
>> itemtype="http://schema.org/__ProfilePage
>> <http://schema.org/ProfilePage>";>
>> [...]
>> <div itemprop="mainContentOfPage" itemscope="itemscope"
>> itemtype="http://schema.org/__WebPageElement
>> <http://schema.org/WebPageElement>";>
>> <div itemprop="about" itemscope="itemscope"
>> itemtype="http://schema.org/__Person
>> <http://schema.org/Person>";>
>> [...]
>> </div>
>> </div>
>> [...]
>> </html>
>>
>> or it's just basically the same ?
>>
>> Thanks and regards,
>>
>> -- Jocelyn Fournier
>> www.wiktik.com <http://www.wiktik.com>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

-- 
Jocelyn Fournier | WIKTIK
Directeur Technique
+33 (0) 489 685 620
www.wiktik.com
jocelyn.fournier@wiktik.com
think about the environment before printing
Received on Thursday, 8 December 2011 13:14:13 GMT

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