{Minutes} TTWG Meeting 2019-02-14

Thanks all for attending today's TTWG meeting. Minutes can be found in HTML format at https://www.w3.org/2019/02/14-tt-minutes.html


In text format:


   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/


                Timed Text Working Group Teleconference

14 Feb 2019

   [2]Agenda

      [2] https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/18


   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] https://www.w3.org/2019/02/14-tt-irc


Attendees

   Present
          Glenn, Nigel, Philippe, Mike, Gary

   Regrets
          Thierry, Cyril, Pierre, Andreas

   Chair
          Nigel

   Scribe
          nigel

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]This meeting
         2. [6]TTML Profile Registry
         3. [7]TTWG Future Requirements
         4. [8]Add generic CSS property functionality tt-reqs#2
         5. [9]TTML3 modules
         6. [10]Add generic CSS property functionality tt-reqs#2
            (continued)
         7. [11]Spoken subtitle tt-reqs#13
         8. [12]Fade in/out tt-reqs#11
         9. [13]TTML in RTP IETF submission
        10. [14]WebVTT Implementation report
        11. [15]Meeting close
     * [16]Summary of Action Items
     * [17]Summary of Resolutions
     __________________________________________________________

   <scribe> scribe: nigel

This meeting

   Nigel: Today we have profile registry, Future Reqs status, TTML
   in RTP IETF submission,
   ... WebVTT implementation report, and I have no AOB yet.
   ... Anything else to raise or specific points to mention?

   group: [no AOB]

TTML Profile Registry

   Nigel: No issues marked for the agenda, 2 pulls open. Anything
   holding us back?

   Glenn: I need to implement the decision from last week and deal
   with the comments on the use of
   ... specref, to go through and check to see if Specref is
   generating through respec the correct information

   Nigel: easy way to do this

   [18]PR #59

     [18] https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/59


   Nigel: Then click Diff

   [19]Diff

     [19] https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/59/5483f8e...c847a99.html


   Nigel: The only deltas are in the References at the bottom.

   Glenn: Okay I'll take a look at that and try to wrap it up
   later today.

   Nigel: Thank you

   Philippe: TTML2 is only informative somehow.

   Nigel: That's because we haven't done issue #39.

   Glenn: Good that diff tool will be helpful.

   Philippe: By the way you want to check those TTML references, I
   do not think the 2nd Ed references
   ... should be normative. I could be wrong.

   Glenn: Thanks for that comment.

   Nigel: Is there anything else to discuss on the profile
   registry?

   Glenn: There are 8 open issues to resolve.

   Philippe: By the way one more thing on the normative thing, if
   you click the link it will tell you the version
   ... is outdated anyway.

   Nigel: You mean only 3rd Ed should be normative?

   Philippe: Correct

   Glenn: It's a conceptual fine point, we're using dated URLs in
   this registry.

   Philippe: Yes but you're normatively referencing outdated
   specifications.

   Glenn: Yes you're probably right I'll take a close look at
   that. Thanks.

   Philippe: Thank you.

TTWG Future Requirements

   Nigel: A few things here:
   ... 1. I need to do the Charter draft updates.
   ... 2. Glenn was going to prepare a TTML requirements doc - not
   sure if we need that?
   ... 3. Reminder about explainers being a good idea.
   ... And I'd like to give a status report on issue 2.
   ...
   ... On the Charter draft I thought Philippe was going to make
   some changes to the charter draft repo.

   Philippe: I thought it was not urgent.

   Nigel: Oh sorry my fault, I need to make the updates by the end
   of February I think.

   Philippe: Okay I'll bump up the priority!

   Nigel: And Glenn are you still intending to create a document
   for the TTML requirements?

   Glenn: I think I have one, it hasn't been updated for a while.
   ... It's still the intent.
   ... I've basically used one of the IMSC1.1 requirements
   documents as a boilerplate to start with.

   Philippe: Do you need a repo?

   Nigel: We'll use the tt-reqs repo.
   ...
   ... Re Explainers, anything complicated enough to warrant a
   horizontal review should have an
   ... explainer.

   Glenn: I was looking at that. I see there's a TTML2 2nd Ed
   requirements doc,
   ... so I need a TTML3 1st ed requirements document as well, so
   I'll create that.

   Philippe: Explainer documents have become more of a trend
   nowadays.
   ... The TAG requires one if you want them to review your
   document, so it is a Thing.

   Glenn: We used to call those White Papers, it may be out of
   vogue now.

   Nigel: I also wanted to open up issue #2.

Add generic CSS property functionality tt-reqs#2

   github: [20]https://github.com/w3c/tt-reqs/issues/2


     [20] https://github.com/w3c/tt-reqs/issues/2


   Nigel: Been discussing with implementers for BBC.
   ... Thinking about adding a "decorations" approach to embellish
   existing semantics without affecting
   ... layout.
   ... One thing that we probably will ask for though is a change
   to the value of the tts:fontWeight
   ... attribute, to allow numbers as per XSL-FO and CSS, because
   the current two options weren't enough
   ... for the implementers.

   Glenn: I know Vlad is not on the call, but I imagine he would
   suggest something like using the
   ... fontVariant style by adding more richness to its value
   space to support parameterised fonts.
   ... One dimension or axis of those is weight along with width
   for example, narrow vs wide, and heavy vs light.
   ... Those are in a number of fonts, as continuous parameters
   that can be passed to the font
   ... rendering system to produce a continuous range of weight.
   ... If we assign integer numbers then I don't know how
   interoperable that would be in terms of saying
   ... which integer maps to a keyword used in the industry for
   labelling points on the continuous weight
   ... axis. One thing we did not do in TTML2 with fontVariant,
   though it was on my list and I think there's
   ... a TTML3 issue, is to bring in some of the more rich
   capabilities that CSS had discussed that tie it to the
   ... OpenType and other font systems to allow you to specify low
   level feature labels and parameters
   ... to those labels, one of which could be weight.
   ... Before we decide to add integer values to the fontWeight
   attribute we need to look at the bigger picture.

   Nigel: Interesting, thank you for that.
   ... I just wanted to note that thinking is ongoing.

TTML3 modules

   Glenn: It's high on my priority list to create a boilerplate
   template for modules so that there's consistency
   ... on them.

Add generic CSS property functionality tt-reqs#2 (continued)

   github: [21]https://github.com/w3c/tt-reqs/issues/2


     [21] https://github.com/w3c/tt-reqs/issues/2


   Glenn: On the class attribute, it seems to require a link to a
   stylesheet.
   ... If we add a class attribute we would need some way to
   reference it.

   Nigel: Yes we could add it as a resource like audio or font.

   Glenn: That's an interesting idea, I kind of like it, it would
   be different from the way SVG does it.

Spoken subtitle tt-reqs#13

   github: [22]https://github.com/w3c/tt-reqs/issues/13


     [22] https://github.com/w3c/tt-reqs/issues/13


   Glenn: Nigel have you managed to contact the issue raiser on
   this?

   Nigel: No, sorry, thanks for the reminder, I need to follow up
   with Pilar.

Fade in/out tt-reqs#11

   github: [23]https://github.com/w3c/tt-reqs/issues/11


     [23] https://github.com/w3c/tt-reqs/issues/11


   Glenn: Any word from Andreas about following up on this?

   Nigel: I've not heard anything more yet.

   Glenn: The only potential action I can see is possibly adding
   support to IMSC for fade.
   ... I don't see any feature definitions coming out of that.

TTML in RTP IETF submission

   Nigel: Quick update from me on this.
   ... You'll have seen on the reflector I submitted the feedback
   as agreed last week,
   ... and have been working with the author to get that
   processed.
   ... I have high confidence that will be done.
   ... The Chair of the Payload group added a comment that it is
   okay to remove the duplication of the
   ... media type registration.

   Mike: That's good.

   Glenn: Is section 7.1 going to be removed?

   <mike>
   [24]https://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/media-types.xh

   tml#application

     [24] https://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/media-types.xhtml#application


   group: [discussion]

   Glenn: I think the only thing it should say is it uses
   application/ttml+xml and omit any other comments
   ... about IANA or W3C responsibilities.

   Mike: Any request for changes to the media type registry should
   be external to this document, we can
   ... certainly make the changes.
   ... My preference would be to remove the IANA and W3C
   considerations sections.
   ... It may be a required section about IANA in which case scale
   it back as Glenn suggests.
   ... The W3C section should be removed. We will make the
   reference in the profile registry but it doesn't
   ... need to be in the document.

   Glenn: That's fine with me.

   Nigel: Okay, thank you.

WebVTT Implementation report

   Gary: I've been working on this. I submitted a pull request to
   WPT to fix the references for some of
   ... the align tests because they were out of date, and that has
   made those tests go green.
   ... I've started looking at the other failures in VLC and vt.js
   and Edge and make some passes.
   ... A lot of other failing tests are because there's a mismatch
   between the reference and the implementations
   ... mostly around collision avoidance for cue boxes. I'm still
   trying to wrap my head around how the
   ... algorithm works but it seems like the references are
   incorrect so hopefully I will be able to walk through
   ... this with Silvia and update the references, and that may
   improve the status of those tests.
   ... The wpt.fyi website now allows you to select browser
   versions and you can see that a bunch of
   ... newer experimental browser versions have more passing tests
   so they are working on fixing things,
   ... which is good.
   ... For the next week I'll continue focusing on the failing
   tests, updating vtt.js, and probably filing bugs
   ... with browsers so they can get started on fixing things as
   well.

   Nigel: Thanks for the update.

Meeting close

   Nigel: Thank you, that brings us to time on this meeting, so
   I'll adjourn it now. [adjourns meeting]

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

   [End of minutes]
     __________________________________________________________


    Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by
    David Booth's [25]scribe.perl version 1.154 ([26]CVS log)
    $Date: 2019/02/14 17:08:34 $

     [25] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm

     [26] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/







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Received on Thursday, 14 February 2019 17:10:30 UTC