W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-tt@w3.org > July 2018

{minutes} TTWG Meeting 2018-07-19

From: Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2018 16:28:52 +0000
To: TTWG <public-tt@w3.org>
Message-ID: <D7767A06.61DA8%nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
Thanks all for attending today's TTWG meeting. Minutes can be found in HTML format at https://www.w3.org/2018/07/19-tt-minutes.html


Please note that our meetings on 16th and 23rd August may not go ahead due to holidays (including mine). If anyone wants to Chair those meetings please let me know.

Unless I receive any objection I will change the basis of timing for our future meetings to UTC rather than being Boston based; we will need to decide whether or not to follow DST and if so, on what date to make the change.

In text format:


   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/


                Timed Text Working Group Teleconference

19 Jul 2018

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] https://www.w3.org/2018/07/19-tt-irc


Attendees

   Present
          Cyril, Nigel, Andreas, Glenn, Thierry, Pierre

   Regrets
          none

   Chair
          Nigel

   Scribe
          nigel

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]This meeting
         2. [5]Publication timings
         3. [6]TTML1 Actions, Pull Requests and Issues
         4. [7]TTML2 Actions, Pull Requests and Issues
         5. [8]Support for roll-up and paint-on captions.
            ttml2#443
         6. [9]Unicode bidi should probably not be animatable.
            ttml2#881
         7. [10]Clarify use of terms altitude, depth, and line
            gap; add non-normative… ttml2#890
         8. [11]Add clip{Begin,End} attributes to tt:audio in
            schemas (#887). ttml2#897
         9. [12]Ensure audio and image (in presentation contexts)
            are treated as cont… ttml2#898
        10. [13]Editorial improvements for 'content element' usage
            (#892). ttml2#899
        11. [14]Editorial improvements to 11.3.1.2 Inline Regions
            (#903). ttml2#911
        12. [15]IMSC Actions, Pull Requests and Issues
        13. [16]IMSC vNext Requirements
        14. [17]Since some style attributes are permitted in Image
            profile, permit `#initial` imsc-vnext-reqs#36
        15. [18]Meeting close
     * [19]Summary of Action Items
     * [20]Summary of Resolutions
     __________________________________________________________

   <scribe> scribe: nigel

This meeting

   Nigel: For today we need to cover publication timelines, and
   there are some TTML2 issues
   ... marked for the agenda.
   ... Any particular points anyone wants to make sure we cover,
   or Other Business?

   group: [silence]

   Nigel: Nobody has come back to me objecting to moving the basis
   of the meeting time
   ... to UTC from Boston time, so that's what I'll do as of next
   week, assuming no
   ... objections in the intervening period.

   Pierre: By UTC you mean ZULU or UK time?

   Nigel: UTC time

   Pierre: That will shift the meeting time during DST - why do
   that?

   Andreas: I'm not sure if you were on the call last week when I
   proposed this. It was
   ... discussed at the AC meeting, and lots of members said
   Boston time is not very
   ... convenient to see when a specific meeting is, so they
   proposed to shift to UTC
   ... instead of Boston. Although I think it is not an official
   rule there was overwhelming
   ... support for it and some groups already shifted to it.
   ... I just proposed it last week.

   Glenn: When will it change our time, at the transition of DST,
   right?

   Nigel: Yes

   Glenn: Other than 2 days a year it will make no difference?

   Nigel: We would be able to choose when to shift to track DST.

   Glenn: I don't see any problem with that.

Publication timings

   Nigel: We've just requested transition of IMSC 1.1 to CR2.
   ... Looking ahead we're about to request transition of TTML1
   3rd Ed to CR2,
   ... and we've just transitioned TTML2 to CR2.
   ... However some issues have been raised on TTML2 since CR2
   that can most
   ... straightforwardly (in terms of the Process) be handled by
   issuing TTML2 CR3.
   ... There was concern about pushing back the Rec date of TTML2,
   which this would do,
   ... but the flip side as Glenn noted in the week is it will
   give more time for implementation
   ... and testing work.
   ... Given that there are some changes being proposed to TTML2
   that look important
   ... and that are probably substantive, even though I could try
   making the case that they
   ... are editorial, and given where we are with TTML1 3rd Ed, I
   think I'd like to propose that
   ... we move to a mode where we publish TTML1 3rd Ed and TTML2
   transitions
   ... simultaneously, i.e. TTML1 3rd Ed CR2 and TTML2 CR3, and
   then later PR and hopefully
   ... Rec, and possibly even IMSC 1.1 Rec at the same time if
   that is possible.
   ... Any thoughts on that proposal?

   Glenn: As I think I pointed out, this puts a 47 day delay into
   the TTML2 schedule as it
   ... currently stands if we don't try to track TTML1 3rd Ed and
   if we don't make that change
   ... at least considering it substantive. Instead of Sep 13 for
   Rec it changes to Oct 30.
   ... The advantage of putting them in sync is that they would
   all go to PR at the same date
   ... which is Sep 25 to make an Oct 30 final Rec date and to do
   that we would need to
   ... go to CR3 on Aug 9, which means we would have to start the
   CfC in time to do that,
   ... which by my estimation would have to begin July 26 at the
   latest or possibly July 25.
   ... That gives us only a few days to prepare CR3 which I think
   is doable if we limit the
   ... scope of what we are doing to just a few pull requests.
   ... Some of those pull requests on TTML2 are marked for the PR
   milestone. We could
   ... do them during CR3 or at PR as long as they are editorial.
   ... We could get a new CR3 draft out the door for a CfC then
   publish on Aug 9 on the
   ... same day as TTML1 3rd Ed CR2. I think it's feasible. I'd
   like to hear from anyone if
   ... there are any views about that.

   Cyril: The situation is not ideal; TTML2 has already been
   delayed for too long so we
   ... should try to minimise any delay if we can. Especially if
   the delays are created by the
   ... Process we should check with W3S if there are any ways we
   can mitigate that, like
   ... changing the reference on the way to PR. However we aren't
   ready for PR for TTML2
   ... anyway because we don't have the implementation report. So
   I'd rather make sure
   ... we go to PR for TTML2 because we have found a date that is
   reasonable in terms of
   ... producing the implementation report and the test suite,
   which is really the problem.
   ... The deadlines for publication are internal to W3C and W3C
   should be able to resolve
   ... that problem. The situation is becoming critical because we
   have a chain of dependencies.
   ... Not just TTML2 on TTML1, but also MPEG, which needs IMSC
   1.1 to become finalised.

   Nigel: What's the deadline for that?

   Cyril: I will check.

   Pierre: Last time I checked Oct 30 was an appropriate deadline
   for MPEG.
   ... I really like the idea of making it simple on ourselves and
   targeting publication of
   ... IMSC 1.1, TTML1 3rd Ed and TTML2 all synchronised on Oct
   30.

   Cyril: I don't think that makes it simpler for us. The sooner
   we can get a spec out of the
   ... door the more time we have to focus on the next one.

   Pierre: The last month is no effort for us, so I don't think it
   makes a big difference.

   Glenn: The time between the PR and the Rec has some stretch.
   Right now with these
   ... dates we would have to go to PR on Sep 25 for Oct 30 Rec,
   which is probably longer
   ... than is needed, but that is what Philippe's schedule tool
   produces right now. The
   ... upside is that instead of Aug 9 for TTML2 PR which is
   coming very quickly we would
   ... have until Sep 25 which works out to I think 47 days extra
   for work on test suite and
   ... implementation report which would be a very useful
   additional space in which to do that.
   ... Completing them by Aug 9 is going to be very challenging.

   Nigel: +1
   ... I don't see how it would even be possible given where we
   are, realistically.

   Cyril: What is a reasonable date for producing the
   implementation report and test suite?
   ... Regardless of a CR3 when is the earliest we could produce a
   PR?

   Glenn: We are only one party to the implementation report. I'm
   having to timeslice between
   ... spec work and test suite writing. I'm nominally on holiday
   right now until 23rd July,
   ... and will be back on 24th, so that would technically leave
   me 16 days...

   Nigel: The question is how much time do we really need to
   finish the test report?

   Glenn: I can't answer that question.

   Cyril: So we are not near PR?

   Glenn: I can't say that right now.
   ... I have pushed most of the validation tests to the test
   suite but not any of the rendering
   ... tests yet. My expectation is that other implementers will
   contribute tests as well.

   Cyril: We should, yes.

   Nigel: Yes.

   Andreas: Is there an overview of which in-flight tests are
   missing?
   ... It is possibly on all of us to contribute something so if
   we could coordinate this then
   ... it could speed up the process.

   Nigel: +1

   [21]Current draft Implementation report spreadsheet

     [21] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gtUAV0r4Zd1NUSEcFclBqOrk41pOyaOTfaLxc7boBeQ/edit?usp=sharing


   Cyril: [has to drop off the call]

   Glenn: That spreadsheet does not show mapping between features
   and tests yet. It is on
   ... my work list to add a table that does that and I probably
   won't be able to start work
   ... on that until 26th July given I will have to focus on CR3
   completion before then.

   Nigel: Thank you

   Glenn: This activity is part of Skynav's internal
   implementation activity.

   Nigel: It's a tricky thing to coordinate contribution of tests
   - I'm happy to take any suggestions!

   Andreas: For the specifications we have an Editor. For the Test
   Suite I don't know if anyone
   ... has the lead on it. If someone like Glenn is actually
   working on some tests, say there
   ... are 50 missing and Glenn is working on 25 then it would be
   inefficient if others would
   ... also work on those same 25. Just my immediate thought.

   Glenn: The way I've organised the current TTML2 tests repo is I
   have 3 directories:
   ... valid, invalid and resources, which test for validity,
   invalidity and resource files.
   ... My plan was to add a presentation directory as well for
   populating presentation tests.
   ... We could have, say, a contrib directory under which
   organisations that wish to contribute
   ... tests can be done, then tests can be merged from
   contrib/XXX into the top level as
   ... we proceed. Under the contrib tests we could allow push
   with little oversight but
   ... we would scrutinise them before moving them to the official
   tests.

   Andreas: I think that's not I asked for - it possibly makes it
   more complicated. If it is
   ... clear how the tests are organised then we or I can make a
   pull request and make the test
   ... What I'm asking for is if there are features that need
   tests. If there's a list then we can
   ... see who is working on it.
   ... The minimum required is, for each feature, at least one
   test file and one rendering?
   ... Or a valid and an invalid and a rendering?

   Nigel: I think it's a valid one, an invalid one and a
   rendering.
   ... The Valid ones can be Rendering ones too.

   Glenn: True, but the ones written right now are designed to
   test the validation process.
   ... For example many of the style validation tests simply put a
   style attribute in a style
   ... in the head without referencing it. It just tests for
   parsing.
   ... One thing we should keep in mind is we are not testing for
   interoperability, but
   ... to validate the specification, to demonstrate that there
   are implementations of features
   ... and that they are implementable.
   ... This directs how we create the test suite.
   ... Having said that, that means that for testing
   implementability we don't have to go
   ... as far as one would typically do in a product for testing
   interoperability.
   ... We don't have a document requirements set for any test
   suite in TTWG at the moment.
   ... Any individual contributing tests up to now has used their
   own philosophical requirements.
   ... I think we should try to do the minimum that satisfies the
   PR transition request.

   Andreas: I agree.

   Nigel: We do effectively have a list, having all the features
   introduced in TTML2 and for
   ... each one those three things, a validating test, a
   non-validating test and a rendering test.

   Glenn: I plan to work on creating that list so we can populate
   it with tests we have.

   Andreas: This list makes sense. Then we can see where we can
   contribute tests.
   ... For example if there is no TTPE support and no IMSC.js
   support then it is difficult to
   ... get a rendering. I would like to see if we could contribute
   something first of all.
   ... We are only working on features selected by IMSC 1.1. If
   Glenn is already doing it then
   ... we don't have to, but if there are gaps then we can
   consider what to fill in.

   Nigel: I'm hearing that there are no presentation tests yet.

   Glenn: Actually we have a large number of tests for TTPE at the
   moment.
   ... There may be multiple entries for each feature, with a test
   name, then validity tests, invalidity tests and presentation
   tests.
   ... Then for each feature you would be able to see the
   collection of tests.
   ... I'll be able to populate that table at least starting with
   those 100 test files that cover
   ... multiple features. Those cover probably most if not all of
   the features that are going
   ... to be in IMSC 1.1. There may be a few exceptions. Since
   those are the features we were
   ... focusing on implementing first we probably have most of
   them covered.
   ... The ones we're focusing on at the moment are those marked
   as at risk, aside from the
   ... audio features, so I'd look to you Nigel to fill that gap.

   Nigel: Ok I can do that.

   Glenn: I'm fairly confident that all of the features will have
   tests and presentation support
   ... for all three categories.

   Andreas: Okay that sounds good. If you can provide the table by
   next week's call then
   ... we can start there.

   Glenn: I think I can have it in place by next Thursday.

   <tmichel> Sorry I must leave for a few minutes.

   Nigel: Going back to the top, it seems that issuing a TTML2 CR3
   CfC as early as possible
   ... next week has general approval and is unlikely to
   materially affect the Rec date
   ... significantly, and there's support for synchronous
   publication of TTML1 3rd Ed, TTML2
   ... and IMSC 1.1 as Rec by end October at the latest. So that's
   the plan I'll try to go with.
   ... In terms of testing, I don't think there's much more to add
   - summarising, work is in
   ... progress, and I'm on the hook for audio related tests.
   ... And Glenn will summarise the state of existing tests in a
   table by next week's call.
   ... Any other points before we move on?

   Pierre: Since we have agreement on that it would be good if the
   Chair could craft the
   ... timeline, which would be close to what Thierry already did,
   and send it to W3 Staff as
   ... a heads-up so they can highlight any reason it might not
   work, and we can know up
   ... front if we are going to run into trouble.

   Nigel: Good suggestion, I will take that action.

   <scribe> ACTION: Nigel Draft a timeline for TTML1, TTML2 and
   IMSC 1.1 publication and share with plh and tmichel as advance
   notice [recorded in [22]https://www.w3.org/2018/07/19-tt-irc]

     [22] https://www.w3.org/2018/07/19-tt-irc


   <trackbot> Created ACTION-514 - Draft a timeline for ttml1,
   ttml2 and imsc 1.1 publication and share with plh and tmichel
   as advance notice [on Nigel Megitt - due 2018-07-26].

TTML1 Actions, Pull Requests and Issues

   Nigel: First thing to note is that the "crafty plan" regarding
   changing the reference to

   <glenn>
   [23]https://w3c.github.io/spec-releases/milestones/?rec=2018-10

   -30&noFPWD=true

     [23] https://w3c.github.io/spec-releases/milestones/?rec=2018-10-30&noFPWD=true


   <glenn> here is PLH's schedule tool working back from REC on
   10/30

   Nigel: TTML1 3rd Ed from TTML2 is no longer needed and we are
   no longer concerned
   ... about the exclusion period for TTML1 being longer than
   TTML2 if we go ahead with
   ... the plan just discussed.
   ... Secondly, I did issue the CfC to publish TTML1 3rd Ed CR2
   on Tuesday.
   ... Is there anything else to discuss on TTML1?

   Pierre: I think we're good unless we want to reflect changes in
   TTML2 back in TTML1!
   ... We'll have to keep careful track of any substantive changes
   to TTML2.

   Glenn: There's only 7 pull requests on TTML2 CR3. Three are the
   substantive ones which
   ... are the change to the normative ref to TTML1, the addition
   of image and audio to the
   ... list of content elements, and scaling back animatability.
   Those are my current limited
   ... set and I don't anticipate any further ones unless someone
   pulls something out of the
   ... hat in the next few days.

   Pierre: I remember some modifications to style resolution that
   I have not studied yet.

   Glenn: Right now I think they are completely editorial. Please
   do review them. I marked them
   ... as PR milestone. We have until Nov 25 or a bit before to
   put in place other editorial
   ... fixes. If someone thinks they are substantive we can scale
   them back to make sure
   ... they are editorial. It is not my intent that any of those
   should have a substantive effect.

   Pierre: As we merge those things if they impact TTML1 we should
   consider back-porting
   ... them, without prejudice one way or the other.

   Glenn: Right, the three substantive ones are not relevant to
   TTML1.

TTML2 Actions, Pull Requests and Issues

   Nigel: Are there any things to discuss other than stuff marked
   for the Agenda?

   <glenn> [24]https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/labels/agenda


     [24] https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/labels/agenda


   Nigel: That has 8 things on it.

Support for roll-up and paint-on captions. ttml2#443

   github: [25]https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/443


     [25] https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/443


   Glenn: This is the one where we need to send a message to Glenn
   Goldstein.

   Nigel: Yes that's for me. We began working on this a couple of
   weeks ago and then
   ... Glenn came into the discussion - it wasn't at the forefront
   of my mind that he is actually
   ... a member of this WG. So he's seen something in preparation,
   but I haven't yet formally
   ... sent it.
   ... Action still with me.
   ... Is there anything to comment on regarding the draft text?

   group: [silence]

   Glenn: I would say go ahead and send it, so the issue can be
   closed.

   SUMMARY: Nigel to review status of the draft and send if no
   further changes are needed.

Unicode bidi should probably not be animatable. ttml2#881

   github: [26]https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/881


     [26] https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/881


   Glenn: I put this on the agenda because I posted a pull request
   on it, and I had a couple
   ... of open questions for the group.
   ... The pull request is #914.
   ... It turns out that unicodeBidi is discretely animatable in
   TTML1. The most we can do
   ... is deprecate it, and if we do then we should deprecate
   animation of direction too. I've
   ... put that deprecation into this pull request.
   ... I did three more changes:
   ... 1. Scaled back continuous animation to only values that
   represent alpha, RGB colors, luminanceGain and position
   coordinates.
   ... All other styles that were previously marked as
   continuously animatable I have moved back
   ... to discrete only.

   Nigel: I need to ask for a change there, because the pan and
   gain attributes need to be
   ... continuously animatable to be useful.

   Glenn: I'm sorry, I did leave pan and gain. I changed pitch to
   discrete only, because I
   ... didn't see a use case for continuous animation of pitch.

   Nigel: I don't think animation of pitch and rate has any use
   case at all.

   <tmichel> sorry I am back

   Nigel: Why would you discretely animate the rate, for example,
   as opposed to splitting the
   ... text up into different spans and putting different rates on
   each one?

   Glenn: I see what you mean, the timing of those set transitions
   related to the text is
   ... unknown to the author. I'll mark them as "none" for
   animation.

   Nigel: Sorry I interrupted your list.

   Glenn: 2. Add a note under the section that defines the style
   properties that describes
   ... the style property definition tables and to provide some
   information on the terms we
   ... are using in the animatable row, in particular we never
   said what discrete and continuous
   ... means.

   SUMMARY: @skynavga to modify speak and pitch to make them
   non-animatable.

   Nigel: I don't see the need to deprecate discrete animation of
   unicodeBidi and direction.

   Glenn: It is more consistent with the CSS recommendation.

   Pierre: I don't see a need to deprecate use of set with a style
   property just because it
   ... doesn't seem useful to use. I think I'm of the same mind as
   Nigel that there's no need
   ... to deprecate it, but I think Glenn is pointing to a bigger
   issue?

   Glenn: You cannot animate the content of text but if you
   [scribe failure]
   ... For example in TTPE the style attributes are mapped to the
   UnicodeBidi control characters
   ... and if you say they can be animated now you have to re-run
   the Unicode Bidi algorithm.

   Pierre: Right, but as Nigel pointed out, set is no different
   than creating a bunch of ISDs
   ... each one with a different value of the style properties. So
   from an implementation
   ... perspective there's no difference.

   Glenn: I agree, and I think it actually works in TTPE that way,
   but I do want to mention
   ... the reason this came up was to satisfy the CSS WG decision.

   Nigel: I think that CSS WG decision was about CSS animation
   including continuous animation.

   Glenn: They just wanted to make it not animatable at all.

   Nigel: I don't think they make the distinction between
   continuous and discrete.

   Pierre: My feeling on this is we should not spend time
   deprecating this.

   Glenn: Okay, it's easy enough to revert that. I'm happy to
   deprecate it.

   Pierre: Once you've committed to supporting set it really
   doesn't matter.

   Glenn: Yes, that's correct, but it does have a questionable
   impact on authoring.

   Nigel: There's a majority view not to deprecate and no
   objection to not deprecating.

   RESOLUTION: Do not deprecate discrete animation.

Clarify use of terms altitude, depth, and line gap; add
non-normative… ttml2#890

   github: [27]https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/890


     [27] https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/890


   Glenn: Here we have a couple of points from Andreas that I'm
   not agreeable with.

   Andreas: I think we can limit the discussion on one or two
   points, the others I can accept as is.
   ... My major point is with the reference. It's good to
   reference the OpenType specification
   ... there is an ISO document but that is not accessible because
   it has to be paid for.
   ... But there is a Microsoft version that is also referenced by
   CSS and other experts have
   ... also referred to it in discussions I have. Either reference
   it or at least say for the reference
   ... to the ISO document that the Microsoft one is also
   available.

   Glenn: It is accessible but it costs money. We also have a
   precedent in this group and others
   ... that ISO/ITU standards take precedent over national
   standards, and those in turn over
   ... company documents. The Microsoft document is at the bottom
   of that list. In this group
   ... we have always preferred international standards. Wikipedia
   states that the OpenType
   ... standard is the ISO standard and quotes Microsoft as saying
   they are synchronised.
   ... Readers will probably already know about Microsoft's
   documents. At most I'd be willing
   ... to add an informative reference to the MS doc in addition
   to the current ISO reference.

   Andreas: I'm happy with doing that.

   Glenn: I'll add an informative reference to the MS doc and
   leave the ISO doc as the main ref.

   Andreas: One other thing is an editorial matter which you said
   had a typo. Would you add that text?

   Glenn: The comma was already present.

   Andreas: Okay

   Glenn: I'll consider the proposal.

   SUMMARY: @skynavga to consider editorial improvement and add
   informative reference to MS OpenType spec.

Add clip{Begin,End} attributes to tt:audio in schemas (#887).
ttml2#897

   github: [28]https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/897


     [28] https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/897


   Glenn: Added to agenda to prompt for review.

   Nigel: I'm mid-review. One technical question: Glenn you added
   these into
   ... the audio.attlist attributeGroup, whereas I saw an
   alternative way which is to add it
   ... to the Audio.content.attrib.class attributeGroup.

   Glenn: Simple explanation - it's a global not a local attribute
   without a namespace.

   Nigel: Ah, interesting.

   Glenn: Our convention is that global attributes are put into
   classes.

   Nigel: Okay, thank you!

   SUMMARY: Review to continue

Ensure audio and image (in presentation contexts) are treated as
cont… ttml2#898

   github: [29]https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/898


     [29] https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/898


   Glenn: I think I just wanted to note that I've moved this to
   substantive. We discussed earlier.
   ... Pierre, you might want to take a look at this. It adds
   audio and image to content element.
   ... During the last meeting you had some questions and were
   reluctant to make this change.

   Pierre: Alright, em...

   Glenn: I went through all instances of the phrase content
   element in TTML2 and found
   ... no cases where it was not appropriate.

   Pierre: I sense that we've already had this discussion somehow
   and you argued for the
   ... opposite in the past, but you've done the research now?

   Glenn: Yes. It took me about a day!

   Pierre: I need time to think about it. I'll study it.
   ... You're saying it's not embedded content, just content?

   Glenn: It's still covered under embedded but also in content
   element. We already had
   ... "presentation related" which included image but not audio.
   This attempts to make it
   ... consistent.

   Pierre: I'll add this to my review list, thanks for pointing me
   to it explicitly.

Editorial improvements for 'content element' usage (#892). ttml2#899

   github: [30]https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/899


     [30] https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/899


   Glenn: This is a small number of editorial improvements.
   ... Nigel you have an outstanding comment I need to look at.

   Nigel: Yes

   Glenn: We can do this offline.

   Nigel: Ok

Editorial improvements to 11.3.1.2 Inline Regions (#903). ttml2#911

   github: [31]https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/911


     [31] https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/911


   Nigel: Glenn, you and I had a bit of back and forth on this
   one.

   Glenn: Yes, I need to process it some more, and I don't think
   we can resolve it right now.
   ... It is marked for the PR as editorial so we have some time
   to get straight on this.

   Nigel: Okay, let's continue offline.

IMSC Actions, Pull Requests and Issues

   Nigel: I'm not sure we have anything to cover on this today?
   ... Thierry is there any news on the transition?

   Thierry: No, I sent the TR on Monday and still don't have any
   news. Plh is on vacation this week
   ... so I don't know if Ralph will process the transition
   request tomorrow. Maybe on Monday.
   ... We have until Wednesday morning for me to get the approval
   to make the publication
   ... request for publication on Thursday next week so we still
   have time.

   Nigel: Thank you for the update.

IMSC vNext Requirements

   Pierre: Nigel you opened an issue, but I think it was answered.

Since some style attributes are permitted in Image profile, permit
`#initial` imsc-vnext-reqs#36

   github: [32]https://github.com/w3c/imsc-vnext-reqs/issues/36


     [32] https://github.com/w3c/imsc-vnext-reqs/issues/36


   Nigel: I think we're out of time to do anything about this in
   IMSC 1.1. We didn't action
   ... this in the CR2 transition request.

   Pierre: No, and the idea really is to modify the Image profile
   as little as possible, if at all.
   ... I've not heard folk being unsatisfied with Image Profile.
   Users of the Text Profile were
   ... quite vocal with strong opinions, but I've not seen any
   documented feedback on the
   ... Image Profile so my philosophy is not to modify it without
   anyone expressing that opinion.

   <atai2> +1

   Pierre: Same applies to position.

   Glenn: Did you add the new image element?

   Pierre: Yes, and deprecated smpte:backgroundImage.

   Nigel: I take your point, though it does seem inconsistent.

   Glenn: How about tts:showBackground? Everyone seems to want to
   change that.

   Pierre: If you're using an image you'd typically use a
   transparent background.
   ... Basically I've seen a lot of full raster images for Image
   Profile.
   ... What we can do about this is either close it as "won't do"
   (for now), or just leave it
   ... open and mark for v.next. I think I'd rather just close it.
   ... Here the question is if someone cares. If nobody cares we
   should close it. I don't care!

   Nigel: I don't have any plan to use Image Profile for anything,
   so it makes no difference to
   ... me in usage.

   Pierre: My suggestion would be to close it.

   SUMMARY: No immediate requirement to `#initial` has been
   identified, closing with no action until such a requirement is
   raised.

   Nigel: I've labelled it as Wontfix and closed it.

Meeting close

   Nigel: I need to add TTML Profile Registry to agenda for next
   time, since there's been
   ... some discussion on it.
   ... A reminder that Thierry sent details of early bird discount
   period for TPAC, so if you have
   ... not registered but plan to, do it soon and save some money!
   ... Unless someone wants to step in and Chair, we may not have
   meetings on 16th and 23rd August while I'm away.
   ... If you do want to Chair, please let me know!

   Pierre: I'll be away those dates too.

   Nigel: Okay, thanks everyone! [adjourns meeting]

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Nigel Draft a timeline for TTML1, TTML2 and IMSC
   1.1 publication and share with plh and tmichel as advance
   notice [recorded in https://www.w3.org/2018/07/19-tt-irc ]

Summary of Resolutions

    1. [33]Do not deprecate discrete animation.

   [End of minutes]
     __________________________________________________________


    Minutes formatted by David Booth's [34]scribe.perl version
    1.152 ([35]CVS log)
    $Date: 2018/07/19 16:25:26 $

     [34] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm

     [35] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/







----------------------------

http://www.bbc.co.uk

This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated.
If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system.
Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately.
Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received.
Further communication will signify your consent to this.

---------------------
Received on Thursday, 19 July 2018 16:29:20 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Thursday, 19 July 2018 16:29:21 UTC