- From: Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
- Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2018 15:53:51 +0000
- To: "public-tt@w3.org" <public-tt@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <D707B46C.5ABFC%nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
Thanks all for attending today's TTWG meeting. Minutes can be found in HTML format at https://www.w3.org/2018/04/26-tt-minutes.html
In text format:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
26 Apr 2018
Attendees
Present
Nigel, Pierre, Andreas, Cyril
Regrets
Glenn, Thierry
Chair
Nigel
Scribe
nigel
Contents
* [2]Topics
1. [3]This meeting
2. [4]Charter
3. [5]TTML1
4. [6]TTML2
5. [7]IMSC
6. [8]Feature #textOrientation-sideways-LR listed twice
imsc#373
7. [9]IMSC vNext Requirements
8. [10]CSS actions review
9. [11]AD CG
10. [12]Meeting close.
* [13]Summary of Action Items
* [14]Summary of Resolutions
__________________________________________________________
<scribe> scribe: nigel
This meeting
Nigel: Today we have Charter, TTML1 (implementation report),
TTML2 (implementation report),
... IMSC 1.0.1 Rec, IMSC 1.1, CSS actions review, and I think
that's all I expect to discuss.
Pierre: We need to talk about the IMSC 1.1 Exit Criteria.
Nigel: OK, added to agenda.
Pierre: Going back to IMSC vnext reqs, there's one issue that
we need to discuss.
... One pull request waiting for review hopefully by Cyril.
Cyril: I maybe started on that and then dropped it.
Nigel: Any more for the agenda?
group: [none]
Nigel: I should note after last week's meeting the AD CG was
created.
Charter
Nigel: There are two open issues.
[15]Revert Decision Policy? #27
[15] https://github.com/w3c/charter-timed-text/issues/27
Nigel: I opened this issue because I noticed that we didn't
spot the change to the decision
... policy and did not discuss it. We're in AC review now so we
cannot easily modify the
... draft that is being reviewed, but if AC review comments
point to this (and the other)
... issue and request that it be implemented then I think W3M
can recommend that is done
... before the Charter goes live.
[16]Shorten horizontal review period #28
[16] https://github.com/w3c/charter-timed-text/issues/28
Nigel: Again this is one to have a think about and go back to
your AC rep about, and maybe
... request a change.
... I don't think there is consensus about what change to make,
exactly.
Pierre: It is clear that there is a problem with the current
wording. My inclination is to revert
... to the previous wording and move on.
Nigel: Yes, it is a problem now.
... The other thing to note is that the WG did not discuss this
change - it came from the
... Charter draft template.
Pierre: I did some archaeology and found that Thierry made a
bunch of changes which were
... not easily traceable, and what we're seeing here is a
symptom of that. In future we should
... use pull requests and match pull requests to issues. It
would make it easier to catch
... these things.
Nigel: +1
TTML1
Nigel: Thank you Pierre for tagging the release
[17]ttml1-3ed-cr1 TTML1 3rd Edition CR1
[17] https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/releases/tag/ttml1-3ed-cr1
Nigel: We published TTML1 3rd Ed CR on Tuesday 24th April.
[18]Timed Text Markup Language 1 (TTML1) (Third Edition) W3C
Candidate Recommendation 24 April 2018
[18] https://www.w3.org/TR/2018/CR-ttml1-20180424/
Nigel: Good news, thank you everyone and well done!
... If you go to [19]https://www.w3.org/TR/ttml1/ it takes you
to this new version.
... If you recall to pass transition we decided to create an
implementation report
[19] https://www.w3.org/TR/ttml1/
[20]TTML1 3rd Ed Implementation Report
[20] https://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML1-3ED_implementation_report
Pierre: I plan to go through the IMSC1 tests and add to the
test suite for TTML1 3ed CR those
... tests that triggered the clarification.
Nigel: Sounds good. How comprehensive is that, against the
changes we made?
Pierre: That's a big question. All the timing clarifications
came from IMSC1 tests that did
... not behave as expected. I would expect the coverage to be
reasonable.
... The reason the issues were filed is because there were
IMSC1 and TTML1 tests that did
... not yield the expected results.
Nigel: I think a second task for someone other than Pierre to
go through the change summary
... and see if there's a test for it.
... As a second pass.
Pierre: I'll do the first pass on that.
Nigel: Does anyone else have tests for these changes that may
not have been exposed yet?
group: [silence]
Nigel: I'll take that as a "no" for now!
... I see that there are a bunch of 3rd Ed Test Suite milestone
issues in the ttml1 repo
... that need to be resolved.
Pierre: Yes, at some point they will be resolved.
TTML2
Nigel: Similarly we need to populate the implementation report
for TTML2. I would like to
... see tests in a test suite for this.
Cyril: I haven't had time to look at this yet.
Nigel: I hope to contribute tests for the audio features.
... Looking at the repo recently 3 issues have been opened:
[21]#717 Applicability of tts:rubyPosition
[21] https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/717
Nigel: I don't have a view on that one yet.
-> [22]https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/718 #718 Add TTML
feature(s) for rw/rh <length> units
[22] https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/718
Nigel: I've added a proposed resolution for that, I don't know
if anyone (Cyril?) can prepare
... a Pull Request for it.
[23]#719 Add ttp:displayAspectRatio to RNC/XSD schemas
[23] https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/719
Nigel: I haven't had a chance to look at that one at all yet.
IMSC
Nigel: We published IMSC 1.0.1 Rec! Well done us!
-> [24]https://www.w3.org/TR/2018/REC-ttml-imsc1.0.1-20180424/
[25]https://www.w3.org/TR/2018/REC-ttml-imsc1.0.1-20180424/
[24] https://www.w3.org/TR/2018/REC-ttml-imsc1.0.1-20180424/
[25] https://www.w3.org/TR/2018/REC-ttml-imsc1.0.1-20180424/
Nigel: Philippe hasn't managed to prepare the transition
request for IMSC 1.1 to CR yet,
... but one reason for this is that the Director would not have
been able to consider it.
... Hopefully we'll see some movement on that next week.
Pierre: We need to discuss the Exit Criteria.
... For IMSC1 the exit criteria was "every feature not included
in TTML1" because presumably
... features successfully tested in TTML1 did not need to be
tested again in IMSC1 if the only
... difference is that they're more constrained.
<atai2> +1
Pierre: I replicated that for IMSC 1.1 since if every feature
is tested in TTML2 we do not need
... to test it again in IMSC 1.1.
Nigel: Okay, I hadn't thought about it that way!
... Did we introduce any extensions in 1.1 that are not in IMSC
1.0.1 and are not in TTML2?
Pierre: What we should say is "not already present in [[TTML2]]
and [[IMSC 1.0.1]]". If you
... can modify your comment then I'll make the change.
Nigel: Yes, agreed, will do.
... [does that] Done.
... For IMSC 1.0.1 are you going to publish the release Pierre?
Pierre: yes, Philippe has implemented some wording changes but
I'm trying to figure out if
... I can get the folk from respec to make a few changes.
Nigel: Okay, there's no rush.
... Then similarly to TTML2 there are a bunch of new issues
over the last 24 hours raised on
... IMSC that need looking at. Most of them I've reviewed and I
think they're simple editorial
... fixes. There's one substantive one though.
Feature #textOrientation-sideways-LR listed twice imsc#373
github: [26]https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/373
[26] https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/373
Nigel: This is substantive - it isn't clear what the
disposition for #textOrientation-sideways-LR is
... as Stefan spotted.
Cyril: Given that #textOrientation itself is completely
prohibited, maybe #textOrientation-sideways-LR
... is also prohibited, but maybe we need to dig into the
history on this.
Pierre: I have not had time to review that. I don't want to
guess!
... It will get done.
SUMMARY: This needs a bit of digging to find out what we meant
and wanted. To do!
github-bot, end topic
IMSC vNext Requirements
Pierre: Nigel you have 2 pull requests to review on this.
Nigel: Thanks for the reminder, I'll take a look at them.
CSS actions review
Nigel: CSS WG took up the TTML issues last week I think, so
it's worth a quick run-through
... in case we have any immediate views.
Pierre: I've not prepared for it - I think there's one with an
active discussion.
[27][css-sizing][css-align][css-text] Aligning an aligned block
of text within its container #1975
[27] https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/1975
Nigel: This is the CSS implementation of multiRowAlign, and the
resolution was to add a
... text-group-align property to text 4 with an outline and
open issues on that text once its drafted.
... They had a hard time coming up with a name, which mirrors
our experience.
... Then there was a question about the fallback if it is not
supported.
Pierre: Yes, at least one CSS member believes strongly that it
should be the opposite of
... TTML, i.e. that the text-group-align should take priority.
Nigel: I don't understand how that makes any sense to have a
fallback in the case of a
... non-supported property that relies on support for that
property!
Andreas: That's also my view that it doesn't make any sense.
Pierre: You should add that to the issue.
Nigel: I will!
Cyril: Should we update the CSS mapping wiki page to link to
that issue?
Nigel: Yes I have a long standing action that I keep not
getting around to to update that
... page since it does not quite match what's in TTML2 either.
... And I think it makes sense to link to open active issues in
CSS also.
... Thanks for the prompt.
[28][css-inline] Allow background of an inline area to extend
to before-and after-edges of the line area #1974
[28] https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/1974
Nigel: This is the equivalent of fillLineGap.
... Their resolution was: Add a property to be named that
applies to everything with 2 values, normal and fill. It
inherits and applies to inline boxes.
... I think this is very close to the fillLineGap semantic -
again the naming is awkward, but
... the resolution closely matches fillLineGap.
... I guess we're generally happy with that.
group: [no dissent!]
[29][css-inline][css-text-4] Allow padding to be applied at
line start and end #1973
[29] https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/1973
Nigel: This is the equivalent of linePadding.
... The resolution was: Add a line-padding property as
described in minutes to text level 4.
... There's a lot of complexity here.
Pierre: Because the padding influences the layout then it has
to be iterative.
Nigel: I don't get that - I think you can just subtract the
line padding value from the available inline space
... before doing layout, and proceed as before, then add the
line padding afterwards.
Pierre: If it applies only to blocks then I think you're right.
Nigel: There may be a need to inset the laid out line areas by
the line padding value also, for
... the foreground text.
... I think this is good news for us.
... One question mark in my mind is that I thought there were 4
issues but I've only found 3
Pierre: No, I had filed only 3.
Nigel: Okay, great. Perhaps the 4th was about the block
progression height of the content
... rectangle, which is still unresolved, but if they do
fill-line-gap then that's moot in any case.
AD CG
Nigel: Very brief AOB item coming out of last meeting:
[30]Audio Description CG
[30] https://www.w3.org/community/audio-description/
scribe: This was created, thanks to Philippe for prompting last
week.
... I'm looking for an Editor for that group's spec.
Meeting close.
Nigel: Thanks everyone, we have meetings over the next 3 weeks
and then no meeting on
... 24th May, for the IRT event.
... [adjourns meeting]
Summary of Action Items
Summary of Resolutions
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
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Received on Thursday, 26 April 2018 15:54:17 UTC