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{agenda} TTWG Meeting 2017-06-01

From: Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 09:28:58 +0000
To: Timed Text Working Group <public-tt@w3.org>
Message-ID: <D5543DC9.40AD0%nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
This meeting is scheduled for up to 120m. Please be ready for a prompt start at 10:03am Boston time.

Our teleconference is scheduled with reference to Boston Time, the correct time of this teleconference in your locale may change.

Check https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20170601T10&p1=43


Thursdays 10:03am-12:00pm Boston local

Joining details:

see https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2016Oct/0009.html

(members-only link – if you can't see this and wish to join please contact me)

Agenda+ Assign Roles

Chairs: Nigel Megitt

Scribe: usually Nigel – open to offers!

Regrets: Pierre

Activity since last meeting:
See individual agenda items for recent activity on specific products

Cross-product TTWG board: http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/board/

We are still using tracker for actions unrelated to issues.
Please do not add or modify issues in tracker!

IMSC: https://github.com/w3c/imsc/pulse

TTML1: https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/pulse

TTML2: https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pulse

TTML Profile Registry: https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pulse

TTML-WebVTT mapping: https://github.com/w3c/ttml-webvtt-mapping/pulse

WebVTT: https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/pulse


Agenda+ Prioritise discussion for this meeting and look ahead

Check-point for order of topics – I'd suggest, subject to reordering:
1. TPAC advanced planning
2. TTML issue assignment and progress tracking
3. TTML1 & TTML2 issues, actions, PRs, editorial actions etc
4. IMSC
5. HDR in PNG
6. Progress on HTMLCue proposal (placeholder)
7. WebVTT comments (placeholder)
8. AOB – please notify of any other AOB now!


Reminder re future milestones and meetings:

June Meetings:

Thursday 8th June: TTWG phone meeting 2 Hour(s)
Thursday 15th June: TTWG phone meeting 2 Hour(s)
Thursday 22th June: TTWG phone meeting 2 Hour(s)
Thursday 29th June: TTWG phone meeting 2 Hour(s)

Further ahead:

Thursday 6th July: TTWG phone meeting ? Hour(s)
Thursday 13th July: TTWG phone meeting ? Hour(s)
Thursday 20th July: TTWG phone meeting ? Hour(s)
Thursday 27th July: TTWG phone meeting ? Hour(s)

IMSC 2 and TTML2 publication events: see the timeline of upcoming work at https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/Publications#Timeline_of_TTML2_and_IMSC2_work



Agenda+ TPAC 2017 Advanced planning

As Chair I have completed the WBS survey, requesting:

Attendance for ~10 people.
No preference for date, meet on any two days.
Flexible about days.
Joint meeting with CSS WG and with Web and TV IG.
Avoid overlap with Web and TV IG.
Permit observers.
Not member confidential.
Estimate ~6 attending technical plenary.
Estimate ~3 attending AC sessions Tuesday and Thursday.

https://www.w3.org/2017/11/TPAC/Overview.html


Agenda+ TTML issue assignment and progress tracking (20 minutes maximum)

We have a tough goal to resolve our open issues by the end of May. Please could you indicate for the coming week which issues you will be able to pick up and prepare pull request(s) for?

At the moment of writing this agenda, there are:

  *   10 open issues on the Editor's WR Work List milestone, of which 2 are not labelled as "PR Open";
  *   29 open issues with no milestone, and
  *   7 open issues awaiting some feedback on disposition, which are in the "Group's WR action required list" milestone.

To achieve our goal of WR publication by end of June we need a proposal to publish based on a draft WR version of the ED for a 2 week group review by 15th June at the latest. Aside from resolving group review issues generated during that period, (i.e. those required to achieve consensus on the proposal to publish) no further changes will be accepted after 15th June. However I would encourage everyone to begin reviewing now and file any issues that would block publication if not resolved. This also includes reviewing open pull requests and adding comments.

Agenda+ TTML1 & TTML2 issues, actions, PRs, editorial actions etc

Horizontal Review:

CSS Review of TTML2, threads: FW: TTML2 horizontal review with CSS<https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2016Dec/0013.html> and Fwd: Subtitle/caption styling + TTML + CSS<https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2016Dec/0019.html>

Internationalisation review by r12a has generated several new issues on TTML2 and comments on existing issues (see below), this week mainly about alignment with relatively recent CSS developments.

CSS 2.2 request for reviews from TTWG et al: Pre-announcement of CR for CSS 2.2 & request for reviews<https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2016Dec/0017.html> When can we schedule a review and gather feedback?

Actions:
ID      State   Title   Person  Due Date        Associated with
ACTION-443<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/443>[(edit)]<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/443/edit>     open    Prepare a document showing mapping arib ruby extension features to ttml2 for use as a liaison document to arib.<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/443>   Glenn Adams     2016-08-26      TTML2<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/products/4>
ACTION-462<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/462>[(edit)]<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/462/edit>     open    Create issue on ttml2 to add "mapping from other versions and profiles of ttml"<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/462>   Glenn Adams     2016-04-28      TTML2<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/products/4>

Most recent WD published at https://www.w3.org/TR/2017/WD-ttml2-20170106/


Merged TTML1 Pull Requests: None
Merged TTML2 Pull Requests:
Apply improvements to aspect ratio and pixel semantics.<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/321>
Issue 0164 default play rate<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/324>
Add note with advice on usage of Mongolian script in tblr writing mod…<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/332>
Improve characterization of the ISD document type (#225).<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/334>
Clarify that height of referenced value is used to resolve relative l…<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/337>
Issue 0230 vertical scripts<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/327>
Clarify that xml:space (and xml:lang) association occurs before ISD c…<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/339>
Insert new Appendix P on security and privacy (#224).<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/341>
Clarify relation between isd:isd and root (tt) element retained in [c…<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/342>
Clarify that unnormalized whitespace may appear in [normalized value]…<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/343>
Add version information to normative references (#293).<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/345>
Remove support for tts:position on root (tt) element (#319).<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/335>
Issue 0133 ruby style inheritance<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/328>
Add rendering model that defines rendering (painting) order (#228).<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/333>
Issue 0221 writing mode and direction<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/338>
Open TTML1 Pull Requests: None
Open TTML2 Pull Requests:
Issue 0168 implied region targets current region<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/350>
Issue 0195 audio descriptions<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/349>
Issue 0215 extent auto<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/348>
Issue 0128 conditional styling<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/347>
Issue 0150 inline background height<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/346>
Issue 0237 line padding<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/344>
Issue 0213 non applicable styles<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/340>
Improve descriptive prose and elaborate computed value semantics of t…<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/336>
New TTML1 Issues:
Handling of LWSP in tts:fontFamily<https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/issues/248>
New TTML2 Issues:
Deprecate use of pixel units unless tts:extent on root element is in pixels.<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/330>
Revert deprecation of ttp:profile on root element.<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/331>
Closed TTML1 Issues: None
Closed TTML2 Issues:
How to specify aspect ratio to understand positioning that may apply for display or video<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/30>
Default play rate<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/164>
<emphasis-position> vs CSS text-emphasis-position + Mongolian<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/240>
Consider applying ipd or bpd to content images<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/140>
TTML Intermediate Document Type "non-hierarchical".<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/225>
The terms [related media object region target] and [viewport target] defined but not referenced.<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/320>
Cell metric in tts:textOutline<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/217>
The term "vertical scripts" needs formal definition.<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/230>
xml:space inheritance rules during ISD construction<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/220>
Add security and privacy section.<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/224>
Style set resolution support for root inheritance<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/145>
Specify attribute term delimiter as post-normalised space<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/191>
Inline block semantics impacts text wrapping<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/146>
Reference versioning<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/293>
Remove support for tts:position on <tt>?<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/319>
Ruby text should used special inheritance algorithm<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/133>
What is the painting order for image, text, backgroundImage and backgroundColor?<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/228>
writingMode and direction interaction<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/221>
Discussed TTML1 Issues: None
Discussed TTML2 Issues:
Questions about ttp:mediaOffset<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/323>
Add support for adjacent background area merging<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/189>
Make inline region semantics set values on current region<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/168>
Default ruby position may be on the wrong side for tblr (eg. Mongolian)<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/254>
Create a section on options for customisation<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/156>
The width of content elements' areas is unclear, especially looking at the examples<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/134>
tts:extent="auto" vs tts:extent="100% 100%"<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/215>
Support for conditional styling.<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/128>
Incomplete support for IMSC1 line padding.<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/237>
Metadata examples do not include xml:lang (editorial) <https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/271>
LWSP in rgba expressions?<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/315>
Mismatch between CSS and TTML2 text align styling on <span><https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/238>

Focus topic(s) for this week

Open Pull Requests (50 minutes)

Can we reach consensus to merge the open pull requests or understand what changes are needed so that they can be merged?

Issues (remaining time)

(Please advise if you would like to raise any other issues for the group's consideration this week)

The uniqueness of xml:id needs to be broken for some uses of condition<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/128>

LWSP in rgba expressions?<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/315>

Questions about ttp:mediaOffset<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/323>

Inclusion of foreign namespace elements – is it only permitted on metadata elements, or anywhere? Do we need additional conformance language? See also IMSC issue foreign namespace usage is underspecified<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/213>

Iterate through the issues with no milestone – we need to classify those in some way.

A PR was merged early (direct commit) for How to specify aspect ratio to understand positioning that may apply for display or video<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/30> - does this do what we need? Last comment on the issue was Jan 6. This now incorporates Interpreting the pixel measure<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/27>.

Given the recent discussions, are we in a position to propose a syntax and semantic to resolve Should background of a span be height of text in line or computed lineHeight?<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/101> in a way that can reasonably be contributed to CSS WG for their proposed equivalent?

Collate list of the issues we want to open with CSS WG

We need to put this together as part of the agenda for a request to meet at TPAC.

Current open issues: https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/issues and https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues

See spreadsheet of editorial actions at https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/blob/master/spec/ednotes.xlsx

Edit/build instructions now in README in ttml2/spec/ at https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/blob/master/spec/README.md



Agenda+ IMSC (now incorporates Unicode ticket)

The Wide Review period has now expired and we have received some incoming liaisons.

Can we agree the approach for Fix differences of XML and images for fillLineGap<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/pull/234> ? (blue lines in the image and their text descriptions)

What are our next steps? We will need dispositions for the review comments, to Create tests for CR exit criteria<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/226> and set a CR exit minimum timeline.

IMSC 1.0.1 WD for Wide Review published at https://www.w3.org/TR/ttml-imsc1.0.1/

IMSC 1 Rec available at https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/REC-ttml-imsc1-20160421/

Patent policy call for exclusions sent 2017-02-03, archived at https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2017Feb/0006.html


Editor's draft is directly viewable at http://w3c.github.io/imsc/imsc1/spec/ttml-ww-profiles.html

IMSC Implementation Page: https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/IMSC1_implementation_page.

IMSC Tests repository: https://github.com/w3c/imsc-tests


Unicode CLDR discussion
Unicode ticket is at http://unicode.org/cldr/trac/ticket/8915

Pierre's response to the recent update is at http://unicode.org/cldr/trac/ticket/8915#comment:9

Email response from Shervin at Unicode https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2016Dec/0018.html


Merged IMSC pull requests:
Remove tabs from examples (issue #225)<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/pull/229>
Open IMSC pull requests:
Fix differences of XML and images for fillLineGap<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/pull/234>
Clarify requirement that regions are contained within root container<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/pull/240>
Required spaces between non-terminal components of styling and parameter attributes (issue #221)<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/pull/230>
Clarified expected system behavior for ittp:activeArea<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/pull/231>
New or discussed IMSC issues:
imsc1-all.xsd has a bad pointer for SMPTE-TT schemas<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/235>
Should the character sets be minimum *font* requirements?<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/236>
Why exclude hebrew and arabic proportional reference fonts?<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/237>
Change itts:fillLineGap to ittp:fillLineGap.<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/238>
Clarify "All regions shall not extend beyond the root container"<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/239>
Fix differences of XML and images for fillLineGap + show line area boundaries<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/pull/234>
Create tests for CR exit criteria<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/226>
Closed IMSC issues:
Remove tab characters from Example 7<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/225>

Merged IMSC Tests pull requests:
Added timing, named color and zIndex tests<https://github.com/w3c/imsc-tests/pull/6>
Adds writingMode and unicodeBidi tests<https://github.com/w3c/imsc-tests/pull/5>
Open IMSC Tests pull requests: None
New or discussed IMSC Tests issues: None
Closed IMSC Tests issues: None


Agenda+ HDR in PNG

Repo for PQ HDR in PNG: https://github.com/w3c/png-hdr-pq

Draft WG Note: https://w3c.github.io/png-hdr-pq/


Merged pull requests: none
Open pull requests: None
New or discussed issues: None
Closed issues: None

Note that discussion of this document has continued on the Color on the Web CG reflector, with the focus drifting towards HLG.

Agenda+ HTMLCue proposal progress update.

ID      State   Title   Person  Due Date        Associated with
ACTION-441<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/441>[(edit)]<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/441/edit>     open    Kick off the analysis work on the vttcue carrying html idea.<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/441>      Andreas Tai     2015-11-05


See https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2016Apr/0012.html for further information on this, this week.

Also HTML import and HTMLCue?<https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2016Sep/0003.html> email from 2016-09-06.

[placeholder agenda item]

Agenda+ WebVTT review feedback

ID      State   Title   Person  Due Date        Associated with
ACTION-396<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/396>[(edit)]<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/396/edit>     open    Produce evidence of request for wide review for webvtt, for the archive<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/396>   David Singer    2015-04-17      WebVTT 1.0<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/products/8>

Discussion on WebVTT review feedback and next steps.

WebVTT Wide review wiki page: https://www.w3.org/wiki/WebVTT_Wide_Review


Open Pull requests:
Add requirements for region identifier to exist.<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/pull/201>
Ruby issue264<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/pull/347>
Merged Pull requests: None
New issues: None
Closed issues: None
Recently discussed issues:
incomplete ruby implementation [I18N-ISSUE-431]<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/issues/264>

Agenda+ AOB

References

Wiki http://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText






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