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Re: {agenda} TTWG Meeting 2017-05-04

From: Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 15:44:41 +0000
To: Timed Text Working Group <public-tt@w3.org>
Message-ID: <D5310899.3E783%nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
Thanks all for attending today's TTWG meeting. Minutes can be found in HTML format at https://www.w3.org/2017/05/04-tt-minutes.html


In text format:


   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/


                Timed Text Working Group Teleconference

04 May 2017

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2017/05/04-tt-irc


Attendees

   Present
          Glenn, Nigel, Pierre, David_Ronca, Mike

   Regrets
          Andreas, Thierry

   Chair
          Nigel

   Scribe
          nigel

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]This meeting
         2. [5]TTML
         3. [6]IMSC
         4. [7]HDR in PNG
         5. [8]TPAC
     * [9]Summary of Action Items
     * [10]Summary of Resolutions
     __________________________________________________________

   <scribe> scribe: nigel

This meeting

   Glenn: I have to leave at 40 past the hour.

   Nigel: For today I think we want to focus on TTML, then HDR in
   PNG and IMSC, plus TPAC
   ... Any other business? Or any specific points to raise?

   group: [no other business]

TTML

   Nigel: Thank you everyone for contributing to the extra volume
   of activity in the past week.
   ... Progress tracking
   ... Some people have taken on issues, some pull requests have
   been merged, and proposed.
   ... Does anyone want to assign themselves to an issue but
   discuss it beforehand?

   group: [none]

   Glenn: I think myself and Pierre have self-assigned enough that
   we don't need any more
   ... right now. This month I'm focusing on getting everything
   out the door so I'm on a steam
   ... roller and intend to stay on it right through the month.
   ... There have been a couple of comments about labelling HR
   comments as WR. Last night
   ... I pointed out that as long as there are other open HR
   issues on the WR list we can proceed
   ... with handling those comments, however at some point we may
   have the current HR
   ... issues open. If there are other issues open we may have to
   discuss holding off the WR
   ... but we don't know that yet.

   Pierre: We've had no discussion on labelling issues.

   Glenn: Right now I'm using the WR milestone so I'd like things
   not to be added without
   ... discussing them first unless you have a PR, in which case
   feel free to put it on WR.

   Nigel: Can we back up a level - are we talking about a
   milestone or a label?

   Glenn: We're talking about a milestone - it detracts from my
   own processing particularly
   ... if there's no pull request on it. If issues have a pull
   request they can add it to the milestone.

   Pierre: You can just filter issues assigned to you.
   ... A lot of issues are labelled as WR without being assigned,
   so I don't follow you.
   ... We've agreed to take a group effort so you can just assign
   issues to yourself and use that
   ... to filter on.

   Glenn: you can create a new milestone TTML2WR-HR and when
   there's a PR move it across
   ... to the TTML2WR milestone.

   Pierre: Milestones are for deciding which issues need to be
   resolved before a release.

   Nigel: Stepping aside from the assignee filtering it is true
   that we may in principle not
   ... address all the HR issues in the WR, though accepting that
   Movielabs does want to
   ... resolve them for WR. So I believe that the TTML2WR
   milestone is correct (and it coincides
   ... with my understanding of the group's agreement, though I
   can't recall the minutes for
   ... that) and it is reasonable to move things into TTML2WR
   milestone if we know we have
   ... a resolution for them.

   David_Ronca: I'm going to have to push back on Glenn - we're
   not happy with the progress
   ... on TTML2 so we need to have confidence that we are going to
   finish. Having a milestone
   ... used as somebody's personal review tool isn't appropriate.
   I believe that all the issues
   ... that we believe must be resolved into WR should be tracked
   through a milestone. That's
   ... the way I would do it in a software project.

   Glenn: Right now the Editor is serving as the project manager
   for this particular document.

   Nigel: If anyone thinks an issue is mis-attributed to a
   milestone then please raise that for
   ... discussion.

   Glenn: My point was that I'm effectively serving as the
   programme manager for TTML2 by
   ... default as the Editor. If the group wants to review every
   issue and decide on what's on
   ... that milestone list then we could do that but I think that
   would not be a good use of time.

   David_Ronca: I just think that the milestone list should just
   be those issues that need to
   ... be resolved by WR.

   Nigel: All the issues that are not HR comments are in the
   TTML2WR milestone. So we have
   ... only two cases to cover:
   ... 1. Issues that we in fact do not want to fix in TTML2WR.
   ... 2. HR/WR issues that have no resolution proposed but need
   to be fixed in TTML2WR.
   ... My understanding was this was the position as agreed in
   London.
   ... This is not excluding from resolution any issues not
   currently in the TTML2WR milestone.
   ... In that case just resolve the issue and then we can move
   the issue to TTML2WR milestone.

   Pierre: I don't agree with this and ask to put it on the agenda
   for next week so the group
   ... can form a consensus opinion.

   Nigel: Okay I will table that for next week.
   ... Okay let's stop this discussion here please.
   ... Now what pull requests or issues should we discuss?

   Glenn: There are 2 pull requests currently open.

   [11]Updated tts:writingMode example (issue #269)

     [11] https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/305


   Glenn: I'm wondering if we should change the existing example
   (and in TTML1) or add a new
   ... example. There are two problems with the example. Firstly
   showing the upright
   ... orientation of roman text, which in TTML2 would be set
   sideways. To achieve that example
   ... output (in the current example) we would have to add a
   textOrientation="upright"
   ... property. In TTML1 we did not have that property. I would
   speculate that there are few
   ... if any implementations that do what is speculated in that
   original example.
   ... The 2nd part of the issue is the bidi part. When WGBH
   prepared the current example and
   ... image in TTML1 for the bidi portion there weren't any bidi
   implementations around so I
   ... think Geoff did something simple which was to reverse the
   horizontal lettering. I
   ... support updating that, which would be better for TTML1 and
   TTML2. But we do have this
   ... technical issue on the vertical portion.

   Nigel: Please can you add a note to the issue/pull request
   saying exactly what you think
   ... needs tweaking?

   Glenn: Yes I will do that. Thanks Pierre for moving some of
   this forward, I appreciate it.

   [12]Adds xml:lang to metadata examples (issue #271)

     [12] https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/301


   Nigel: I made an alternative outline proposal on this which
   Richard gave a +1 to. Pierre, would that work for you?

   Pierre: Yes, I'll reassign it to you if that's ok?

   Nigel: Ok, yes.

   Pierre: [assigns it]

   Nigel: Thank you.

   Pierre: I think we need to revert a commit for the bopomofo -
   there was an approved PR
   ... which was modified before merge and then there were
   comments.

   [13]Add note re: bopomofo

     [13] https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/303


   Glenn: I took the liberty to change it before merging it.

   Pierre: But you approved the change, and then merged it before
   the 3 days?

   Glenn: We don't want to start the clock again after every
   change.

   Nigel: Actually we do, however this is editorial so the process
   allows for this.

   Pierre: This seems unproductive and ineffiicient so I can't
   imagine why we want to do that [modify an approved pull request
   before merging].

   Nigel: Can I just check if the note as currently committed is
   okay for you?

   Pierre: I'm not an expert but the term that was removed is used
   everywhere so it seems
   ... safest to keep it, especially as the term was used by the
   original commenter. It's really
   ... the process that I'm worried about here because it's going
   to affect us in the future.

   Glenn: The term zhuyin fuhao is technically accurate but not
   generally used except by the
   ... Chinese, and is not used in CSS or Unicode.

   Pierre: Typically not resolving comments doesn't make them go
   away but costs more in the
   ... future.

   Nigel: In this particular case we can simply check in with the
   original commenter, Richard,
   ... and see if he is happy with the resolution. I don't think
   we need to worry about hypothetical
   ... future review comments, only ones that we have actually
   received.
   ... I've added a comment to the original issue (#253)
   requesting feedback from Richard,
   ... and highlighting the discussion we have had, and reopened
   the issue.
   ... Are there any other issues that anyone wants to raise for
   discussion even in the absence
   ... of Glenn (who has left)?

   David_Ronca: We will start looking at the Ruby and Japanese HR
   issues

IMSC

   David_Ronca: [drops off the call with thanks]

   Nigel: The IMSC 1.0.1 review period will end on Sunday. The
   next thing will be the tests
   ... for CR exit criteria.

   Pierre: I haven't started on that really; my next step is to
   see if Andreas and I can create
   ... more examples for lineGap.

   Nigel: We have had some WR comments in, one that I'll just
   forward now with apologies
   ... for the delay:

   [14]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2017May/0000

   .html

     [14] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2017May/0000.html


   Pierre: I'd like to enter those comments on GitHub but they
   were sent privately, so how do
   ... we do that? Can you ask them if they are happy for the
   comments to be made public
   ... otherwise they will be harder to track. Or we can enter
   them without attribution.

   Nigel: Okay I will do that.
   ... By the way we had a second response:

   [15]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2017Apr/0004

   .html

     [15] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2017Apr/0004.html


   Nigel: My proposal would be wait until after the deadline has
   passed before discussing
   ... each comment.

   Pierre: I just found a bug and fixed it in the test vector, I
   don't think there's anything else.

   [16]https://github.com/w3c/imsc-tests


     [16] https://github.com/w3c/imsc-tests


   Nigel: Do they need to be reviewed?

   Pierre: I'm just going to go with the 14 days and if there are
   no comments then I'll merge
   ... them. We are not under time pressure here.

   Nigel: Thanks, I'll take a look at those.

HDR in PNG

   Pierre: We need to set a date for closing review on this.

   Nigel: It's worth mentioning that Thierry asked Chris Lilley if
   he could come back with any
   ... comments via the Color CG in 2 weeks. Chris hasn't
   responded yet.

   Pierre: I'm happy to just say 4 weeks, fix something and then
   go forward with it until
   ... someone complains.

   Nigel: I don't want this to get in the way of other work that
   we're doing.

   Pierre: I'm also happy with Thierry's proposal to publish now
   and then update.

   Nigel: I think we should publish in 3 weeks, so a Resolution to
   publish next week, then
   ... 2 more weeks. That should give plenty of time for Chris to
   get back to us if there's
   ... anything needed before first publication. Otherwise we can
   modify the document later
   ... with little process requirement.

TPAC

   Nigel: [reviews the WBS responses as in the agenda]
   ... Okay let's close for today. Thanks all.

   Mike: Regrets from me for the next 2 weeks.

   Nigel: Okay, thanks Mike. [adjourns meeting]

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

   [End of minutes]
     __________________________________________________________


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Received on Thursday, 4 May 2017 15:45:13 UTC

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