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{minutes} TTWG Meeting 2017-03-23

From: Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2017 16:15:38 +0000
To: Timed Text Working Group <public-tt@w3.org>
CC: r12a <ishida@w3.org>
Message-ID: <D4F9A4D1.3B315%nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
Thanks all for attending today's TTWG meeting. Minutes can be found in HTML format at https://www.w3.org/2017/03/23-tt-minutes.html

In text format:


   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                Timed Text Working Group Teleconference

23 Mar 2017

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2017/03/23-tt-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Nigel, dae, Pierre, Thierry, Glenn, r12a, Andreas

   Regrets
          Mike

   Chair
          Nigel

   Scribe
          nigel

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]This meeting
         2. [5]TTML
         3. [6]IMSC
     * [7]Summary of Action Items
     * [8]Summary of Resolutions
     __________________________________________________________

   <scribe> scribe: nigel

This meeting

   nigel: For today we have some TTML issues and hopefully we will
   have r12a joining us
   ... shortly. For IMSC I think we need to record publication of
   the WR and think briefly
   ... about the next steps. I will leave that until later in the
   meeting. Any other business, or
   ... constraints?

   Thierry: Someone from VideoLan sent me a few messages
   yesterday, and he said that the
   ... IMSC spec has a lot of issues, not only considering the two
   additional features, but also
   ... the Rec. He said that the test suite is not good enough, so
   I have asked him to raise
   ... those questions to the mailing list.
   ... So he should send something.

   Pierre: Jean-Baptiste?

   Thierry: Yes

   Pierre: In the context of imscjs I've created a more thorough
   test suite based on the TTML
   ... test suite (with bug fixes and made compliant with IMSC1)
   and the IRT test suite, and I
   ... have slowly been adding additional tests as people bring up
   additional test cases. The
   ... suite consists of the TTML documents and some intermediate
   documents and output
   ... images. I can point to that, and my goal is to submit that
   back to W3C as a complete
   ... IMSC test suite. Just time has been stopping me from doing
   that. There are a couple of
   ... bugs and some tests to add and then it should be good.
   ... Please let me know if there are any obstacles to doing
   that.

   Thierry: It is probably not clear that the goal of the W3C test
   suite is for interop not for

   <pal>
   [9]https://github.com/sandflow/imscJS/tree/master/src/test/reso
   urces/reference-files

      [9] https://github.com/sandflow/imscJS/tree/master/src/test/resources/reference-files

   Thierry: product testing. I'm not sure how we explain that, but
   maybe I could look at it and
   ... add some words to explain that. It is good for our purposes
   not for implementors.

   nigel: However a test suite that is good for implementors will
   suffice for our purposes too?

   Thierry: yes.

   Nigel: Just closing off on this meeting, any other points to
   raise?

   group: [silence]

   Nigel: Just a reminder, in 2 weeks on 6th April I will be
   unable to join the meeting so if
   ... anyone wants to step in to Chair, please let me know.

TTML

   <r12a> [10]https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/277

     [10] https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/277

   r12a: If we had agreement on this then it might make things
   easier to discuss in other areas.

   Dae: Link to the CSS document please?

   <r12a>
   [11]https://drafts.csswg.org/css-writing-modes-3/#block-flow

     [11] https://drafts.csswg.org/css-writing-modes-3/#block-flow

   r12a: The reason I raised the issue in the first place is
   because TTML says it is following
   ... CSS but CSS has recently changed before going to CR. The
   change was that instead of
   ... using the vertical-lr and vertical-rl and then fiddling
   with text-orientation to make
   ... latin text run up the page for example there are two new
   values for writing-mode, which
   ... are sideways-rl and sideways-lr and they are specifically
   for horizontal text in a vertical
   ... arrangement, e.g. for text running alongside a table these
   would be useful. If you had
   ... some latin text running up the page and you text-align it
   to the end of the line, in the
   ... old way the text would drop to the bottom, but with
   sideways-lr the text rises to the top
   ... as you would expect. It also makes it easier for line
   breaking and the default orientation
   ... for characters is much easier to handle. This makes things
   much easier.
   ... This leaves text-orientation only applicable to vertical-*
   writing modes, which are what
   ... you would use for Chinese, Japanese and Mongolian most of
   the time. They determine
   ... the default orientation of characters according to Unicode
   TR.
   ... So the text-orientation property becomes a way of
   influencing what's happening in
   ... those vertical- modes, so for text to stand upright you
   would apply text-orientation.
   ... But normally you would use the sideways- values.

   Glenn: Right now the writingMode property in TTML is based on
   the XSL-FO spec rather
   ... than CSS.

   Nigel: Doesn't it fall through to CSS?

   Glenn: No, and certainly not to the current version. Actually
   it enumerates all the values.
   ... At the time there was no writing mode in CSS.
   ... Also, since this is based on TTML1 we don't have a lot of
   room for changes there because
   ... it is already deployed in the field. The second point is
   that textOrientation right now
   ... has a default of "mixed" so horizontal scripts would be in
   sideways mode. So right now
   ... if you use tbrl or tblr with Latin text it would put it in
   sideways mode so you would end
   ... up getting what is apparently (I haven't read the details
   of the new CSS specs) the same
   ... as the sideways mode, and you don't have to specify that
   since it is the default.
   ... So I think it works exactly like you sais.
   ... Also the textAlign default is start which would mean that
   if it were bidi Arabic it would
   ... put it at the bottom in a vertical mode.
   ... Again it would work correctly for both lr and rl paragraphs
   and would derive the textAlign
   ... from that so Latin script in vertical lr would be aligned
   at the top, and Arabic at the bottom,
   ... so it would get the same result. So I don't see any
   particular advantage in pulling in those
   ... values from CSS at this point given the functional
   similarities.

   r12a: I suspected there would be some legacy here so I put in
   the issue that perhaps one
   ... issue would be to keep the legacy and if you want to
   introduce the new sideways modes.

   Dae: One question about the CSS document. It says the sideways
   values link to level 4 but
   ... all those links are broken.

   r12a: I thought it said they are at risk.

   Dae: The newer editor's version seems to defer them. I'm not
   sure which version is newer.
   ... A general to the question: how do we deal with values that
   are at risk or being deferred.

   Glenn: textOrientation is a new property in TTML2 but
   writingMode was there previously
   ... so we have to work around that a bit. The current
   definition is that the default initial
   ... value is "mixed" which is defined as [reads definition from
   TTML2].

   [12]https://w3c.github.io/ttml2/spec/ttml2.html#style-attribute
   -textOrientation

     [12] https://w3c.github.io/ttml2/spec/ttml2.html#style-attribute-textOrientation

   Glenn: So you don't need to use sideways because you get the
   same default behaviour.
   ... The only time you would need to use sideways is... hmm,
   that raises in my mind the question.
   ... I guess if you had set the default to upright and you
   wanted to override with sideways
   ... you might do that explicitly.

   r12a: The mixed default is perfect. It says "glyphs ... are set
   90 clockwise" which is fine,
   ... but then it does not clarify in my mind whether if the word
   "Hello" would have H above
   ... or below e - it sounds like only the glyphs are changed so
   you might end up with olleH
   ... in the text. That was a stumbling issue in CSS and why they
   moved to the new model.
   ... The other thing is "Hello world" in English and
   sideways-left is applied and then
   ... textAlign is applied then there is the question of which
   way does the text move if it is
   ... smaller than the box? That's not a glyph thing, it's a box
   thing if you like. Not just a
   ... question of turning the glyphs around but applying a
   different mechanism to the way
   ... the box is working.

   Glenn: I think you're talking about the baseline and referring
   to the fact that in vertical
   ... scripts you will sit on a centre baseline whereas a roman
   script will have a non-centred
   ... Latin baseline?

   r12a: No I'm referring to the distinction between twiddling the
   orientation of the glyphs and
   ... changing the line direction. The TTML2 spec only seems to
   talk about changing the glyphs
   ... individually not the group of glyphs.

   Glenn: So if you had sideways-left then you would expect Hello
   to have H on the bottom and
   ... ascenders pointing right?

   r12a: The worry is that might not be the case, and that might
   not be the case in CSS.
   ... You might still read H e l l o down the page and the
   descenders would point to the left
   ... instead of the right, in sideways left mode.

   Glenn: I guess I did not say "clockwise" or "anticlockwise"
   relative to what. I meant relative
   ... to an upright position. That would mean counterclockwise
   90 would put the ascender
   ... to the left.

   r12a: Right.

   Glenn: In both cases I don't see anything about if it affects
   the entire line box as well. In
   ... other words model as though setting horizontal text and
   rotate the line instead of the
   ... glyphs. OK that's a fair point.

   r12a: When the CSS folk realised that they switched to new
   values for writing-mode instead,
   ... because that affects alignment, position of characters in
   the line box, etc. so it turned
   ... out to be a convenient way of looking at the world.
   Specifically for use with what are
   ... normally horizontal scripts - there are plenty of
   situations where you want them to run
   ... up or down the page rather than horizontally.

   Glenn: That's fair. In TTML1 we had an example of a latin
   script in a vertical mode and we
   ... used upright glyphs in the example which raises the point
   of if it is valid to change to
   ... mixed for TTML2 and have "mixed" cause rotation, which
   would invalidate that example,
   ... even though the example was informative. That could be an
   issue we should document
   ... and talk about more.
   ... I understand the comments now, Richard, thanks for those. I
   want to give it some
   ... more consideration, but I think you also understand some of
   what TTML2 has done at this
   ... point. There are also some existing implementations of the
   new features that have been
   ... deployed so we have to be a little sensitive about those
   too.

   r12a: One more thing: these sideways values in CSS are best
   thought of as a way to
   ... rotate the box rather than the character glyphs. It helps
   with understanding what is
   ... going on.
   ... That's not necessarily what happens, but it's helpful for
   thinking about it.

   Glenn: There may be some value in that to do with the issue of
   whether you start at the
   ... top or the bottom. I need to cognate on that a bit more.
   The rotation of glyphs though
   ... is still a relevant point because fonts have rotated
   variants and in the case that a font
   ... does not have rotated variants it may perform the rotation
   manually on a glyph by glyph
   ... basis. This comes up in asian scripts more than in roman
   scripts. But the same rotation
   ... dimension applies to any font.

   r12a: CSS does still have a sideways value for text-orientation
   for that kind of scenario.

   Glenn: I had a conversation with @fantasai about this a few
   years ago, after which I think
   ... the sideways versions of text orientation were taken out.
   We had to rely on the state
   ... of the CSS definitions at that time.

   Dae: Do we know when Level 4 is coming out? Are we confident
   that the definition of
   ... sideways won't change?

   r12a: I don't know the a-z of that - I know she read this and
   agreed with what I was
   ... recommending. Firefox has implemented sideways-* already,
   so I am hoping that we
   ... would get Chrome to support those also, so I will follow up
   on the status of that.

   Glenn: Dae I think we cannot make any schedule dependent on a
   CSS document appearing
   ... at Rec, so keep that in mind.

   Pierre: Flipping the question around: can the CSS document
   reach Rec? And by what time?

   r12a: I know they have been talking this week about
   fast-tracking some specs including
   ... Writing Modes so I am hoping it will reach Rec.

   Pierre: It is hard for this group to follow a CSS spec without
   a clear schedule, because the
   ... risk is high.

   r12a: That is something to talk to CSS about - it would help
   them I think.
   ... Like Glenn said, it would be great for users as well if CSS
   and TTML work in similar ways
   ... because they would not need two ways to think about things.
   There is the possibility
   ... of moving ahead with this if they make sense. There are
   lots of examples of that in
   ... TTML2 for example with Ruby, alignment and so on.

   Glenn: I have brought some of those up in the past with Elika
   and Koji.

   Nigel: Let's move on to the next issue then:

   [13]https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/240

     [13] https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/240

   Nigel: Pierre I think last week you thought we may be able to
   conclude on this?

   Pierre: My conclusion from the thread is that there is a
   mapping for every option in CSS
   ... to every option in TTML and the discussion is about the
   best default.

   r12a: That's my understanding as well. There are three things
   that have been coming into
   ... the conversation. They are to do with things that sit
   alongside the vertical line.
   ... One things is text emphasis marks, another is Ruby, and
   another is "lines". Actually
   ... the position of those things may be different depending on
   which thing they are.
   ... There is a Ruby issue for #240 but that might not be
   appropriate until we've decided
   ... what to do with textEmphasis. Then for me the question is
   what is the default specifically
   ... for tblr - I'm not worried about tbrl.

   Pierre: The default in TTML2 for some writing mode might not be
   or might be what
   ... someone expects depending on language. The challenge is
   changing the value of
   ... the default based on the value of something else makes the
   processing algorithms very
   ... complex. That would be an implementation burden. If the
   issue is simply one of defaults
   ... we might have to accept what TTML is today.

   Glenn: I concur with Pierre. We need to have a default for each
   property, that's a given.
   ... There's no argument about whether "before" should be the
   effective default for tbrl or
   ... any of the horizontal modes. The only question is if it
   would be appropriate if you were
   ... using Mongolian, which apparently puts text emphasis on the
   after edge for tblr writing mode.
   ... Now Mongolian can also be written in tbrl where you would
   want it to be on the before
   ... side (the right side).

   r12a: That's not true - you never write Mongolian tbrl.

   Glenn: I have seen a number of manuscripts at Harvard that were
   directly from the imperial
   ... language in Beijing and those were all in tbrl.

   r12a: Were they Chinese documents? In that case you would see
   tbrl.

   Glenn: They were pure Mongolian with occasional Chinese
   characters in. They were created
   ... using the same writing practice as normal in Chinese with a
   scroll that gets unwound to
   ... the left and the right roll gets wound in. In Mongolian
   they shift the scrolls 90 counter-clockwise
   ... so in those scrolls they look tbrl in pure Mongolian. I've
   never seen a tblr Mongolian
   ... document in my own research but I haven't looked at modern
   Mongolian other than what
   ... I have seen in Chinese word processors in Inner Mongolia. I
   don't recall looking at text

   <r12a> [14]https://github.com/w3c/type-samples/issues/55

     [14] https://github.com/w3c/type-samples/issues/55

   Glenn: emphasis in those contexts though.
   ... For me it's like Pierre said, adding a variation in how to
   derive the default behaviour
   ... based on potentially a resolution of xml:lang would
   certainly complicate things and
   ... from an implementation perspective it would be much easier
   to apply "before" to all modes
   ... and then if one wants to do something different use the
   initial element in TTML.
   ... There's no argument about what Richard says.

   r12a: I just put a link into IRC by the way with some Mongolian
   text. I have been working
   ... with Mongolian experts over the last 2 years and seen a lot
   of Mongolian text. This example
   ... was sent to me a few days ago, with "underlining" that
   appears on the right hand side.
   ... All of the text I have seen goes tblr. Let me clarify that
   I'm not asking for a decision to
   ... be made based on the language. I am asking for the default
   to be dependent on whether
   ... we have tblr or tbrl as the value, which is what CSS does.
   Also to clarify that the requirements
   ... for Mongolian as I understand them from talking to
   Mongolian folks is that the same side
   ... is used for the emphasis as Japanese, which means that for
   horizontal the line appears
   ... on the other side, the same as Japanese, on the right for
   vertical or underneath for
   ... horizontal. CSS has the same default for Mongolian as for
   Japanese for underlining.
   ... For text emphasis I don't know if they actually do dots or
   sesame seeds or whatever in
   ... Mongolian. The picture in the link uses a line for
   emphasis.
   ... For Ruby, it is clear that it is always on the right hand
   side. I asked three Chinese experts
   ... this morning how this works. In Chinese the line is used
   for identifying names of people,
   ... book titles etc and it goes on the left hand side unlike
   Japanese or Mongolian. The text
   ... emphasis may go on the left hand side but typically would
   go on the opposite side from
   ... the line used for book titles etc. They said you don't see
   much vertical subtitling in Chinese
   ... at all, and where it is used the line progression is right
   to left rather than left to right.
   ... In Mongolian you would expect the line progression to be
   left to right.
   ... My worry is that in most usage these days, tblr is for
   Mongolian, but if we are using
   ... before or after then for every Mongolian subtitle you have
   to make sure you get things
   ... on the correct side. It is not quite so straightforward
   because in some cases things move.
   ... As I understand it in Mongolian the line goes on the left
   and the Ruby goes on the right.
   ... It seems unfair for these, the main users of this
   orientation, to have to set a different
   ... default. It is not based on the language but on the
   language model.

   Glenn: In a TTML2 document you just have to put one element up
   in the head of the
   ... document so it is not much of a burden to do that and it
   makes processing more
   ... consistent and reduces the implementation special cases to
   worry about.

   Pierre: Can we add a note pointing out Richard's observations?

   Glenn: That would be quite appropriate, and to advise on what
   to do. Would that work?

   r12a: That would help, yes. I agree it's only one change to
   make. The bigger concern is that
   ... it does not address the sensitivities of people who may
   think there is a western or a
   ... Chinese bias being introduced.

   Glenn: I understand that very well!
   ... I am also sensitive to implementers, and testing. It seems
   like an awful lot of work
   ... to change the behaviour to make the default sensitive to
   the writing mode and also as
   ... I have pointed out in the case of Chinese I have on many
   occasions seen tblr including
   ... Ruby on the left and text emphasis on the left.

   r12a: By the way text emphasis does typically occur on the left
   hand side but the Ruby
   ... would be very unusual especially if you are using Bopomofo
   so that's a difference between
   ... Japanese and Chinese.

   Glenn: One question: at least in Mongolian proper ("outer
   Mongolian") Cyrillic was the

   <r12a> [15]https://github.com/w3c/type-samples/issues/56

     [15] https://github.com/w3c/type-samples/issues/56

   Glenn: primary script used for many years, has there been much
   movement to going back to
   ... the primary script?

   r12a: There is a strong desire to go back to the original
   script and I can produce lots of
   ... examples quite easily.
   ... I have seen books and booklets in Mongolian, I don't know
   about newspapers.

   Glenn: It would be a useful point of note to hear what someone
   in a standards body in
   ... the mainland's position would be because they have an
   official use of the script for
   ... "inner Mongolia" on the Chinese side.

   r12a: Most of my conversation has been with them actually.

   Nigel: So one possibility is to note the option to use the
   initial element and another is
   ... to make the default writing mode dependent - is that what
   CSS uses?

   r12a: Yes, in CSS the terms are "over" and "under" and they are
   writing mode dependent.

   Glenn: We could add over and under, either now or at some point
   in the future. My
   ... preference is to add a note and not add over or under at
   this time.

   Nigel: Does that mean that the mapping to CSS will be harder if
   we do not add over and under now?

   Glenn: I'd have to think... If we add over and under in the
   future, how would that impact
   ... the default now? The default now is based on auto which
   already has a quirk based on
   ... the number of lines - it maps to "outside" for two lines
   which is definitely not in CSS,
   ... and that came about from subtitle usage in Japan, not
   considering Mongolian usage.
   ... If it is not two lines then it maps to "before". Even with
   what we have now it is not unlikely
   ... that you would end up specifying a different behaviour e.g.
   "before" if you don't want
   ... this outside behaviour. If we added over and under in the
   future that would not change
   ... the default setting so you would still end up having to
   specify e.g. over instead of before
   ... for the CSS behaviour now.

   Pierre: My 0th order concern that there is nothing missing in
   TTML is met.
   ... The choice of writing-mode dependent default is a departure
   from TTML so more
   ... error prone. Adding over and under seems a middle ground.
   Adding a note seems
   ... worthwhile regardless. The main point is that CSS diverged
   from XSL and TTML so we
   ... have to cover those gaps as we move along.

   Nigel: And you did not have a concern about mapping to CSS?

   Pierre: There is a static mapping, so no.

   Nigel: The group's view seems to be to go with a Note
   primarily, and that could be enough
   ... to address the sensitivies of Mongolian readers and
   writers?

   r12a: If you add the note then I will seek review of it.

   Pierre: It is more than that, the use of initial is the
   ultimate way to address cultural or
   ... personal preferences.

   Glenn: I agree. The question should be "can you live with
   specifying initial?"

   Nigel: Ok I have added a note to the issue about this.
   ... Now lets move on to:

   [16]https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/254

     [16] https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/254

   Nigel: Have we actually just discussed this?

   r12a: The default preference may be different for Ruby and
   lines and text emphasis. In
   ... Chinese the most likely thing is text emphasis on the left
   hand side regardless of lr or rl
   ... but Ruby would be on the right hand side. I'm not sure that
   the answer for #240 would
   ... provide the answer for this but I think that the final
   result is going to be the same.

   Nigel: Is this the same as the discussion we just had?

   r12a: It is, essentially the same and the thing that lead to
   #240.

   Nigel: Ok I've added a note to the issue on that.
   ... Moving on to #253

   [17]https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/253

     [17] https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/253

   Nigel: My question is do we have enough data to agree if we
   need to support bopofo Ruby?

   r12a: We still need data about if bopomofo is used in subtitles
   for Chinese and I was not
   ... able to get an answer to this yet when I was talking to
   people from Taiwan. At a minimum
   ... we should not close out the possibility of adding it later
   if the need for it becomes stronger.

   Glenn: I don't see why we could not add support for character
   based Ruby in the future,
   ... either in IMSC or in TTML2. I've been watching [scribe
   missed audio] ... I wouldn't rule
   ... out the use for pedagogical purposes but I don't have any
   data points there.

   r12a: It is very much a Taiwanese thing, not used in mainland
   China.

   Nigel: Are we expecting a response to the question on the issue
   any time soon?

   r12a: I will take an action for myself to prompt him on that.

   Dae: I think this is a primary candidate for TTML.next - our
   major subtitle authors
   ... based in China never use bopomofo.

   r12a: One possibility is that again you could put a note in
   saying we know we do not
   ... support bopomofo ruby at the moment and even add a request
   for contact if anyone
   ... thinks it is important. At least this shows we have not
   been ignorant of it.

   Glenn: That's a good point.

   Nigel: Okay I have added a comment on the note explaining our
   default position on this
   ... in the absence of further data points.

   [18]https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/253#issuecomment-288760
   842

     [18] https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/253#issuecomment-288760842

   Nigel: Thank you very much for joining us today Richard!

   Glenn: Thanks for your input Richard.

   r12a: Thanks, bye!

   Nigel: In the time remaining can we very quickly cover the open
   pull request on TTML1?

   [19]https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/pull/233

     [19] https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/pull/233

   Glenn: I believe this is something Andreas posted. I need to
   coordinate it with TTML2 actions
   ... around the same text and make sure we are consistent and we
   have dealt with the errata
   ... aspects of it.

   Andreas: I think this makes sense. It has been open for 1.5
   months so I think we should
   ... make progress on this to clear it from the table.

   Nigel: Looking at the history this is an action for Glenn then.

   Glenn: My only concern there is I will probably edit it to
   shorten it quite considerably. It
   ... seems overly detailed as a note because I don't think we
   want to dive into some of the
   ... language around XSL-FO semantics like large allocation
   rectangle etc so I would like to
   ... say the same thing paraphrased to make it shorter.

   Andreas: Then this means it is not actually accepted.

   Nigel: We'll have to review the edited version.

   Pierre: As a matter of process it is weird to have a pull
   request open for so long. What is
   ... the deadline for getting this addressed?
   ... It is weird for the group to agree the essence of the pull
   request and then have nothing happen.

   Glenn: We need to have the language the same in TTML2 and TTML1
   so there is a dependency.
   ... We haven't prioritised any updates on TTML1; TTML2 has a
   higher priority.

   Nigel: We generated a big list of discussed and agreed issues
   for TTML1 in London.

   Glenn: We don't have a schedule for a third edition.

   Nigel: We don't have an agreed date for it.

   Glenn: As soon as I have it addressed in TTML2 I will backfill
   into TTML1.

   Andreas: I would like to support what Pierre said - we are
   quite fast in merging pull requests
   ... in TTML2 and I would like to do the same in TTML1 also.

   Pierre: Can we prioritise this one?

   Glenn: Sure I will put it to the top of my list and do it
   today, in TTML2 and TTML1.

   Nigel: OK thanks.

IMSC

   Nigel: Thank you to Pierre and Thierry for publishing the WD
   for WR.

   [20]https://www.w3.org/TR/2017/WD-ttml-imsc1.0.1-20170322/

     [20] https://www.w3.org/TR/2017/WD-ttml-imsc1.0.1-20170322/

   Nigel: That was published yesterday, and Thierry posted many
   messages to other W3C
   ... groups requesting wide or horizontal review.
   ... But not all groups - Thierry you need some input from the
   group?

   Thierry: I'm missing privacy and security and TAG.

   Nigel: Please could you do a first draft of the privacy and
   security questionnaire for the
   ... group to review?

   Thierry: Yes I will.

   Nigel: Okay, adding the issue...

   [21]https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/222

     [21] https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/222

   Nigel: Thank you, and I have an action as previously agreed to
   send outgoing liaisons to
   ... the usual groups based on the text that we agreed a while
   back. I think only the review
   ... response date needs to be edited.
   ... I will be able to do that probably on Monday if I can't
   find time to do it any sooner.

   Thierry: So we might receive some comments - I propose to track
   those and then if we
   ... need to come up with a document at the end then ...

   Pierre: Can we do it through GitHub with a Wide Review comment
   tag on the issue?

   Thierry: Do you want to use the Last Call tool or do something
   different?

   Pierre: I assume we should track it on GitHub. Is there a
   downside to that?

   Thierry: No I don't, at some point we need a disposition of
   comments document.

   Pierre: I assumed we could use labels on GitHub and then
   generate say a PDF to be the
   ... document.

   Thierry: We need the comment, our resolution, and agreement
   from the commenter.

   Nigel: I would suggest recording the issues in GitHub and also
   using something like the
   ... Last Call tool to generate the documentation that we need.

   Thierry: I am happy to maintain both, and I don't anticipate
   hundreds of comments.

   Pierre: What is important is that every change we make to the
   document is tied to an
   ... issue in GitHub.
   ... If you prefer to use the LC tool we can probably create a
   bunch of GitHub issues at the
   ... end and link back to the tool comment if we can, but a lot
   of folk look at GitHub to see
   ... what issues are open. My intuition is to enter the issues
   on GitHub to be transparent.

   Thierry: We'll start like that and if needed and there are a
   lot of comments I will use the
   ... tool. Even with 10 comments it is faster to do it manually.

   Nigel: Great I think that is everything for today and we have
   hit time, so thank you everyone. [adjourns meeting]

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

   [End of minutes]
     __________________________________________________________


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Received on Thursday, 23 March 2017 16:16:11 UTC

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