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{minutes} TTWG Meeting 2017-06-22

From: Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 15:29:56 +0000
To: W3C Public TTWG <public-tt@w3.org>
Message-ID: <D5719D90.42D49%nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
Thanks all for attending today's TTWG meeting. Minutes can be found in HTML format at https://www.w3.org/2017/06/22-tt-minutes.html

Please complete your review of the TTML2 ED so that we can resolve to publish as a new WD for WR in next week's meeting.

In text format:


      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                Timed Text Working Group Teleconference

22 Jun 2017

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2017/06/22-tt-irc


          Nigel, Thierry, Pierre, Mike, Andreas, Dae





     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]This meeting
         2. [5]TPAC 2017
         3. [6]IMSC
         4. [7]TTML
     * [8]Summary of Action Items
     * [9]Summary of Resolutions

   <scribe> scribe: nigel

This meeting

   Nigel: In today's momentous meeting we will be looking at IMSC
   1.0.1 CR publication
   ... and TTML2 WR publication.
   ... Before we get on to agenda topics, looking ahead to July's
   meetings, is everyone ok if
   ... I keep them at 2 hours and hopefully we use less?

   Andreas: In general I can only attend for 1 hour.

   Nigel: I'll take the general silence as a Yes.
   ... Back to the agenda for today, there's a bit on TPAC. Any
   other points to make sure
   ... we cover?

   Dae: I have a couple of TTML2 issues we're waiting for r12a
   for. I don't know how long
   ... we give him before we just move forward.

   Nigel: Okay let's come to those in the TTML agenda item.

   Thierry: Regarding WebVTT we need some coordination and I'd
   really like David and Simon
   ... to attend a meeting.

   group: no other business

TPAC 2017

   Nigel: Just wanted to alert everyone that if they need to book
   hotel rooms the Hyatt is
   ... already out of rooms for some nights so book quickly to
   take advantage of the lower rates.
   ... I haven't managed to pull together the stuff for action-497
   so it's still on my list of
   ... things to do.


   Nigel: What's the status on our issues?

   [10]SDP-US is listed as a normative reference, but it is not

     [10] https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/246

   Pierre: This has a PR that has been open for a week and has
   been iterated, and approved
   ... by Andreas and Nigel. I think it should be good for Mike

   Mike: I'll approve that right now.

   Pierre: I guess we could merge that today?

   Nigel: Assuming Mike approves it, there are no objections so I
   think we can go ahead and
   ... merge that.

   [11]Add diff from IMSC 1.0.0 and update
   substantive-changes-summary.txt #244

     [11] https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/244

   Pierre: This one is for me to do at the last minute.

   [12]Requirement to support certain Code Point #241

     [12] https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/241

   [13]Why exclude hebrew and arabic proportional reference fonts?

     [13] https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/237

   Pierre: Those are both addressed by #245

   [14]Clarified the requirement for processors to implement
   reference fonts #245

     [14] https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/245

   Nigel: That has approvals and comments.

   Pierre: The approval that is missing is from r12a but since the
   change I made is exactly
   ... the same wording as his suggestion I assume that resolves
   the issue for him.
   ... That's been open for 13 days now.
   ... Again nobody else has voiced any concern or questions or
   ... I think we should assume it satisfies Richard's comments
   and it is not normative.
   ... The risk of merging this is very low, and any other
   comments can be dealt with editorially.

   Nigel: Everyone happy to merge this?

   Andreas: Yes

   Pierre: I'll merge that too.
   ... The next two are #227 and #228 which have been merged but
   the tickets are open
   ... until we get confirmation from ARIB.

   Nigel: Thierry we sent the message to ARIB didn't we?

   Thierry: Yes we did.
   ... We gave them until the end of June.

   [15]imsc1-all.xsd has a bad pointer for SMPTE-TT schemas #235

     [15] https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/235

   Pierre: There was a message to the reflector 4 minutes ago.
   SMPTE has somehow found
   ... the XSD and sent us a link. So I'll pull that and make sure
   that the IMSC 1 links point to it.

   Nigel: Is this something we need to fix by erratum to IMSC1 as
   well as including in 1.0.1?

   Pierre: Yes

   Mike: I thought we were just going to do WG Consensus to update
   the schemas.

   Nigel: Oh yes it is not normative, thanks for the reminder.

   Mike: I think you can just add it to the existing schema.

   Nigel: I've added a comment on it with a link to the archived
   liaison at

     [16] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2017Jun/0084.html

   Pierre: I will update this and work with Thierry to get it

   [17]Recommended character sets considered harmful #243

     [17] https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/243

   Pierre: I think this is just a misunderstanding and Addison
   never followed up.
   ... The last comment was by me 19 days ago and Addison didn't

   Nigel: I've pinged him on the issue. I think if there's no
   update on this by Monday
   ... morning US time then we could reasonably close this with no
   further action.

   [18]Should the character sets be minimum *font* requirements?

     [18] https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/236

   Pierre: This started as a comment on the character sets being
   minimum font requirements.
   ... The thread went a little bit everywhere. In IMSC 1 the
   recommended character set is
   ... stated as an authoring requirement rather than a processing
   requirement. Then we
   ... explored why we have reference fonts, why we have
   recommended character sets, and
   ... I think I tried to answer all r12a's questions and haven't
   heard back from him. I haven't
   ... seen that anything is broken. I've tried to answer all the

   Nigel: Is it also related to pull request #245?

   Pierre: Maybe, I don't know.

   Nigel: I think you've answered the original question in the
   ... I've added a comment on the issue, pinging r12a and asking
   for a response by Monday
   ... in anticipation of closing the issue by next week's
   ... Ok so where are we in terms of publishing this as a CR?

   Pierre: Next week is a good target.

   Nigel: Yes, if we can, or if not then the following week.

   Thierry: How do you plan this CR publication? We need to have a
   Director call, I need to
   ... write the transition request for this call, and we need
   also to have the DIsposition of
   ... Comments, which I have been tracking in a wiki page. So we
   have 2 comments that are
   ... still pending, on #236 and #243 because they are from
   external groups. We could have
   ... tried to avoid the Director's call but because we have an
   objection from Glenn about
   ... the version number we should discuss this while entering
   into CR.

   Nigel: I'm happy to simply take that to the Director and be
   transparent about the
   ... group's decision and its rationale and Glenn's objection.
   ... Can I check: if the Director hypothetically said we must
   call this v1.1 would anyone
   ... want me to bring that back for the group to consider?

   Pierre: Yes, I would object to publishing as v1.1.

   Thierry: This objection needs to be included in the transition

   Nigel: We need so we need some wording to go in the transition
   ... Does anyone else want to draft that wording about the
   objection, otherwise I'll do it?

   group: [nobody]

   Nigel: Okay then I will draft the objection text and circulate
   it for review.

   Thierry: When can we have a CR-ready draft?

   Pierre: Monday, assuming no changes are needed.

   Thierry: We need a CR ending date. Maybe target 1 month - say
   6th August?

   Pierre: Alright.

   Nigel: 6th August should work.

   Pierre: Noted.

   Nigel: I note that for the objection text there are people on
   this call who would be interested
   ... in reviewing it but also we should get Glenn's approval on
   that wording too.
   ... I will also double check with Glenn that his objection
   still stands.

   Thierry: Then we have a Director's call to arrange - next week
   will be difficult with the W3C team
   ... because it is geek week but we can try.

   Nigel: Given we haven't made the resolution to publish yet, it
   is more likely going to be
   ... the following week isn't it?

   Thierry: Okay, I think that's better.
   ... I will check his availability so we can pencil in a meeting
   early to mid the week after next.
   ... I will propose some different slots and see what works for

   Nigel: Typically we would have me as Chair, Thierry and Pierre
   on the call.

   Thierry: I guess this current time is good for everyone, as a

   Pierre: Yes in general

   Nigel: And for me too, depending the particular day.


   Nigel: Dae you said there were some issues to review?

   Dae: Yes, the 2 on IMSC we already covered and the 7 open
   i18n-comment ones for which
   ... we are awaiting feedback from Richard and/or Addison.

   [19]Metadata examples do not include xml:lang (editorial) #271

     [19] https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/271

   Nigel: The last comment here was 28 days ago and Glenn asked
   Addison for his confirmation
   ... that the fix works for him.
   ... I think for these and the IMSC issues I will send a private
   message to Addison
   ... and Richard just asking them to confirm the issues work for
   them or proposing
   ... something different.

   Pierre: We need to work live with them, we don't have time to
   iterate over a 2 week period
   ... for these.

   Nigel: yes.

   [20]Add an illustration of pinyin for ruby align #274

     [20] https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/274

   Dae: There was some back and forth on this, and we ended up
   saying an illustration might
   ... be all that is needed. I could do it, but it might still
   take a while for Richard to respond.

   [21]How to space base characters where shiftRuby kicks in for
   group ruby? #258

     [21] https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/258

   Mike: [question about process and how much time people have to

   Nigel: I will mention to Richard and Addison that we plan to
   publish TTML2 by end of June
   ... so any responses would ideally be received by then,
   otherwise they will have to get
   ... dealt with before we move to CR.
   ... On #258 you are suggesting we can close the issue with no
   more change.

   Dae: Right, I think Richard is suggesting fine grained control
   for Japanese that no subtitler
   ... would ever use, so it is not needed for subtitling.

   Nigel: OK I will send that message, and I think that's all we
   can do for now on the i18n issues.
   ... Now last week we made a decision to merge the PRs so there
   would be an ED for review
   ... and since then there is one new pull request for audio
   feature designators, and I've asked
   ... for a missing bit to be added.
   ... The idea is that everyone should review the ED prior to
   publishing the WD by next week's meeting.
   ... Are there any comments on that?

   group: [silence]

   Nigel: Okay then I think we can close for today, since there
   are no more points on our agenda.
   ... Thanks everyone. [adjourns meeting]

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

   [End of minutes]

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