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{minutes} TTWG Meeting 17/7/2014

From: Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 15:14:25 +0000
To: Timed Text Working Group <public-tt@w3.org>
Message-ID: <CFEDA687.2030F%nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
Thanks to all for attending today's meeting. The minutes are available at http://www.w3.org/2014/07/17-tt-minutes.html

Text format minutes:


      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                               - DRAFT -

                Timed Text Working Group Teleconference

17 Jul 2014

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2014/07/17-tt-irc


          glenn, Thierry, nigel, atai, Courtney, pal





     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]Prioritise discussion for this meeting
         2. [5]Geneva f2f
         3. [6]Action Items
         4. [7]Issues
     * [8]Summary of Action Items

   <trackbot> Date: 17 July 2014

   <scribe> scribeNick: nigel

Prioritise discussion for this meeting

   thierry: Can we put a deadline for the F2F?

   nigel: I've opened the questionnaire until 15th August.

   thierry: Can we encourage everyone to attend and/or complete
   the registration form?


      [9] https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/34314/TTWG_Geneva_F2F_Planning/

Geneva f2f

   Courtney: re the agenda, spending a long time on the code/tests
   for the transforms is really important so I'm glad it's on the
   ... I'm largely happy with the agenda as it stands.


     [10] https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/geneva2014

   atai: We want to propose a mapping from a restricted TTML
   subset to WebVTT

   glenn: One point of advice for that mapping: The best approach
   is to map TTML document to an ISD sequence, and then map the
   individual ISDs to VTT cues.
   ... my plan is to include in TTML2 a formal definition of an
   interchangeable form of a sequence of ISD documents. I'll
   probably define a format: either a single XML document where
   each child is an ISD document
   ... and maybe a second format that is a ZIPped sequence of ISDs
   with a specific naming format to sequence them in the ZIP file.

   nigel: That's an interesting point because there's an
   alternative which is to create a cue per piece of text with a
   distinct lifetime, by semantic analysis of the document. I can
   see merits to both.

   glenn: I may have some working code by the F2F to drive some

Action Items


   <trackbot> action-296 -- Glenn Adams to Define default for
   @validationaction to be warn if @validation is optional;
   otherwise, default is abort -- due 2014-06-12 -- PENDINGREVIEW


     [11] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/296

   close action-296

   <trackbot> Closed action-296.


   <trackbot> action-302 -- Nigel Megitt to Re-review issue-313 --
   due 2014-06-26 -- PENDINGREVIEW


     [12] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/302


   <trackbot> issue-313 -- Presented Region section is informative
   only -- open


     [13] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/313

   close action-302

   <trackbot> Closed action-302.

   issue-313: An acceptable proposal would be to change the
   wording in 4.6.1 specifically to define the term "Presented

   <trackbot> Notes added to issue-313 Presented Region section is
   informative only.


   <trackbot> action-303 -- Nigel Megitt to Add priority column to
   change proposal index -- due 2014-06-26 -- PENDINGREVIEW


     [14] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/303


     [15] https://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/ChangeProposalIndex

   nigel: I've added the priority column - please could the owners
   of each change proposal now review each and edit the index page
   to assign the appropriate priority value.
   ... We can use this to choose which issues and changes to
   tackle soonest.

   close action-303

   <trackbot> Closed action-303.

   <scribe> ACTION: glenn Assign priorities to change proposals
   owned by glenn [recorded in

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-304 - Assign priorities to change
   proposals owned by glenn [on Glenn Adams - due 2014-07-24].

   <scribe> ACTION: pal Assign priorities to change proposals
   owned by pal [recorded in

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-305 - Assign priorities to change
   proposals owned by pal [on Pierre-Anthony Lemieux - due

   <scribe> ACTION: jdsmith Assign priorities to change proposals
   owned by jdsmith [recorded in

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-306 - Assign priorities to change
   proposals owned by jdsmith [on Jerry Smith - due 2014-07-24].

   <scribe> ACTION: mdolan Assign priorities to change proposals
   owned by mdolan [recorded in

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-307 - Assign priorities to change
   proposals owned by mdolan [on Mike Dolan - due 2014-07-24].


   <trackbot> action-207 -- Glenn Adams to Add round-down
   clarification to "closest" language, see issue-259 -- due
   2014-04-01 -- PENDINGREVIEW


     [20] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/207

   glenn: I've implemented this clarification.
   ... I've clarified the distinction between scalar and vector
   component comparisons for border and padding. There was also a
   comment about rounding up vs down.
   ... For extent and lineHeight we round up so I added a comment
   on extent that explains the rationale for this.

   nigel: Looks good to me.

   pal: I'll take a look.


   <trackbot> action-258 -- Glenn Adams to Work with pal to
   resolve edits needed for issue-259 comments -- due 2014-04-01


     [21] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/258

   glenn: this is related to action-207.



   <trackbot> issue-263 -- profile feature set may not match
   intended feature constraints -- pending review


     [22] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/263

   glenn: I think we're looking for Mike's review of this.


   <trackbot> issue-316 -- Wording of 5.2 doesn't make sense --
   pending review


     [23] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/316

   close issue-316

   <trackbot> Closed issue-316.


   <trackbot> issue-309 -- Image profile needs to permit text
   equivalent -- open


     [24] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/309

   nigel: We met the accessibility folk on Monday. The feeling is
   that as long as there's availability of a text equivalent and a
   method to find it then the WCAG requirement is met.

   pal: Reviewing the changes I've made:


     [25] https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/tip/ttml-ww-profiles/ttml-ww-profiles.html

   scribe: in 3.1 the text is clarified to say that distributors
   should provide a text form of image data that the system can
   find automatically.
   ... in 4.5.4 there's an altText attribute to allow a text
   string to be added.

   nigel: The normative text doesn't mention accessibility -
   shouldn't it?

   pal: The harm for IMSC to say MAY have accessibility is we
   don't want accessibility /only/ to be in the alt text because
   it's better to have a complete alternate text profile document.
   ... Of course there's no prohibition on usage of altText but
   it's not at all a recommendation.

   glenn: defining the contents as #PCDATA is appropriate for an
   element that can contain text.

   atai: This section says "{any attribute not in the IMSC 1.0
   Metadata namespace}" which would allow any attribute in TTML 1
   namespace, which doesn't seem right.

   glenn: That's correct - the table near the top of TTML defines
   all the tt namespaces that should not be permitted here.

   pal: I'll change it to "any attribute not in the default
   namespace or in the TT namespace or in the IMSC 1.0 namespace"
   ... John Birch provided some text re WCAG so I've moved that to
   Annex C.

   nigel: The term "application" has been used in various places
   normatively so I think it needs to be defined.

   pal: Or I could remove it.

   nigel: Either way - but application is used in several places
   ... I wonder if we should say "In order to meet the guidelines
   of [WCAG20] the following considerations apply:"

   pal: I like that.
   ... I'll create an issue prior to committing those changes.
   ... I've added in Annex D.5 the #altText extension designator
   is defined.

   nigel: I think the #altText extension needs to be added to

   pal: I'll add that.

   glenn: I just added a new issue for IMSC - issue-326.


   <trackbot> issue-317 -- IMSC should not require frame alignment
   -- open


     [26] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/317

   pal: I've added a note that hopefully captures the use case.
   ... in 4.4

   nigel: We're close on this one but I need to come back with
   some proposals for edits.
   ... adjourns meeting

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: glenn Assign priorities to change proposals owned
   by glenn [recorded in
   [NEW] ACTION: jdsmith Assign priorities to change proposals
   owned by jdsmith [recorded in
   [NEW] ACTION: mdolan Assign priorities to change proposals
   owned by mdolan [recorded in
   [NEW] ACTION: pal Assign priorities to change proposals owned
   by pal [recorded in

   [End of minutes]

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