- From: Monica Martin (MS OPEN TECH) <momartin@microsoft.com>
- Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 19:28:48 +0000
- To: "'public-tt@w3.org'" <public-tt@w3.org>
See: http://www.w3.org/2013/01/10-tt-minutes.html,text
http://www.w3.org/2013/01/10-tt-minutes.html
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
10 Jan 2013
[2]Agenda
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2013Jan/0009.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2013/01/10-tt-irc
Attendees
Present
mmartin3, glenn, +49.893.aaaa, +1.425.658.aabb, Sean,
+1.858.847.aacc, pal, mike, Andreas, Thomas_Bause_Mason,
+1.408.771.aadd, mijordan, Plh
Regrets
Chair
SV_MEETING_CHAIR
Scribe
mmartin3
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]SDP-US Issues
2. [6]TTML 1.0 Second Edition
3. [7]Actions
* [8]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 10 January 2013
chair sean hayes
<scribe> scribenick: mmartin3
zzakim,aaaa is Andreas
akim, aaaa is Andreas
SDP-US Issues
Issue-198?
<trackbot> ISSUE-198 -- Add TTML in Title of SDP-US for Ready
Recognition -- raised
<trackbot>
[9]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/198
[9] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/198
mmartin3: For ease of recognition.
mike: sounds reasonable.
Link: [10]http://www.w3.org/TR/ttml10-sdp-us/
[10] http://www.w3.org/TR/ttml10-sdp-us/
glenn: Where do we put it?
mjordan: What about after SDP?
glenn: Monica's suggestion is preferred.
Resolved to add TTML to the name of SDP-US.
<scribe> ACTION: Glenn Add "TTML" to name of SDP-US. Link:
[11]http://www.w3.org/TR/ttml10-sdp-us/ recorded in
[12]http://www.w3.org/2013/01/10-tt-minutes.html#action01]
[11] http://www.w3.org/TR/ttml10-sdp-us/
<trackbot> Created ACTION-137 - Add "TTML" to name of SDP-US.
Link: [13]http://www.w3.org/TR/ttml10-sdp-us/ on Glenn Adams -
due 2013-01-17].
[13] http://www.w3.org/TR/ttml10-sdp-us/
<glenn> monica's suggestion is to put TTML at beginning of
title
sean: Redundant list of features in Appendix B.
glenn: Don't serve any real purpose.
... Features defined in Section 9.
... Duplicative and could become out of sync (current case).
mike: Informative summary could also be added.
Resolved: Remove two subsections in Appendix A.
c/A/B
<glenn> remove two paragraphs after table in appendix B
<scribe> ACTION: Glenn Delete 2 paragraphs after table in
Appendix B of SDP-US. [recorded in
[14]http://www.w3.org/2013/01/10-tt-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-138 - Delete 2 paragraphs after table
in Appendix B of SDP-US. [on Glenn Adams - due 2013-01-17].
sean: Fix in editor's draft.
glenn: Has to check URLs.
mike: Public?
[15]http://www.w3.org/TR/ttml10-sdp-us/
[15] http://www.w3.org/TR/ttml10-sdp-us/
pal: Add origin and extent to SDP-US?
... Section 9.
... Do we need display-region?
glenn: Support styling.
... Do we need display for other elements in addition of
region?
... Don't think we need on other elements like span.
... No change.
mmartin3: We have requirements in extent-region.
sean: Need to add extent and origin to Section 9.
Andreas: Do we more for layering?
c/layout/layout
sean: Extent and origin consumed by layout.
... No change needed in Section 9.
... Note?
glenn: Problem is we need to trace all others.
... Glenn will review to decide if we place a note in SDP-US
not in Section 9.
sean: Each feature description gives attributes and elements.
Add another table or subsection in Section 9 that articulates
those elements and attributes.
glenn: Duplicates material that could become wrong.
sean: Automate?
glenn: Only prose in sections.
Resolved: No change.
glenn: SDP-US editorial issue in Example 2 has wrong font size.
<scribe> ACTION: Glenn Correct font size in Example 2 in
SDP-US. [recorded in
[16]http://www.w3.org/2013/01/10-tt-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-139 - Correct font size in Example 2
in SDP-US. [on Glenn Adams - due 2013-01-17].
TTML 1.0 Second Edition
Issue-173?
<trackbot> ISSUE-173 -- presentation semantics of control
characters and other unmapped characters -- open
<trackbot>
[17]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/173
[17] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/173
glenn: No progress on SE issues. Work on now.
... Not sure we discussed in detail.
... Character without a mapped gliff.
... Handle directly or indirectly in XSL-FO semantics. Need to
check this.
... Display gliff at all? Which is specified?
mike: Need to decide on ones that alter the flow - carriage
return, tab, etc.
... Are they part of the behavior of the region?
... Ignor or substitute?
glenn: Handled by default semantics of XSL-FO. Describe
behavior whitespace handling, new lines, etc. Default semantics
of XSL-FO apply because TTML 1.0 doesn't dictate them.
... We could put information in TTML 1.0 SE.
... Umbrella issue that needs to be separate.
sean: Be clear of what semantics actually are.
... Need to know what is in TTML 1.0.
glenn: What are in the specification?
mike: Tab, Carriage Return, New Line.
glenn: Line separator and paragraph separator.
sean: Glenn and Mike will quantify where we are at.
mike: Section 7..1.7 is an example where we need to clarify.
[18]https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/tip/ttml10/spec/ttaf1-
dfxp.html#content-vocabulary-br
[18] https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/tip/ttml10/spec/ttaf1-dfxp.html#content-vocabulary-br
glenn: Reference UAX-14. May need to update and look at XSL-FO
references in Second Edition.
mike: One or more issues?
glenn: Need another issue specifically related to whitespace
handling and line breaking.
Issue-175?
<trackbot> ISSUE-175 -- media type and file extension not
registered -- open
<trackbot>
[19]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/175
[19] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/175
mike: Produced proposed redlines.
... Material to Sean and Glenn, and to TTWG is sufficient.
Original TTML 1.0 said that encoding should be binary. Should
be UTF-8 and UTF-16.
glenn: Registration information says binary.
mike: XML specific encoding is what we are targeting.
Mike's post:
[20]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2012Nov/0036.
html
[20] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2012Nov/0036.html
glenn: TTML 1.0 Second Edition doesn't talk about binary.
... Not in TTML 1.0 either.
mike: Differences between what was given to IANA, discussion
and in TTML 1.0.
... Talk about encoding.
glenn: We don't have constraints for encoding. Recommended for
wire encoding.
mike: Optional parameters - application/xml supports a large
number of encodings including binary.
glenn: TTML 1.0 doesn't mandate a concrete encoding. Defines at
the infoset with scalar values irrespective of their encoding.
... Appendix G.
... May differ with what was defined in MIME registration type.
... Shouldn't constrain.
mike: Presentation engines that use UTF-8 and -16 gives some
preference.
... UTF-8 document with namespace with binary.
glenn: Where is the reference for your concern?
sean: We do have a constraint in SDP-US.
... Don't understand the issue.
mike: We have an issue on encoding.
glenn: Content conformance has some requirements to
application/xml
Issue-197
<trackbot> ISSUE-197 -- charset/encoding unconstrained -- open
<trackbot>
[21]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/197
...glenn: Derive encoding from there.
[21] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/197
sean: Table discussion until the issue is understood.
... Mike put a paragraph summarizing your concerns. Sean will
review.
mike: My concern is a document constrained to UTF-8 encoding
with a namespace that uses binary. There could be processing
issues. There may be other constraints in XML.
glenn: There is no explicit references other than a TTML
document at runtime. There could be implicit references.
<mike> here is some more information, including the proposed
redline of Annex C:
[22]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2013Jan/0005.
html
[22] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2013Jan/0005.html
sean: Could use XML include.
... May not need a concrete MIME type. We need to
comprehensively look at how you create the XML using the
Infoset.
glenn: We probably shouldn't say anything even though we may
want to.
... Annex G could be generalized to namespace and profile
documents.
mike: Need to fix Annex C or remove entirely. If we keep it, we
need to update with comments from IANA and others (see
[23]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2013Jan/0005.
html).
... Talk more about encoding.
[23] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2013Jan/0005.html).
Actions
Action-133?
<trackbot> ACTION-133 -- Mike Dolan to create updated template
and summary of media type record for Glenn. -- due 2012-12-13
-- CLOSED
<trackbot>
[24]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/133
[24] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/133
<scribe> Closed
Action-136?
<trackbot> ACTION-136 -- Glenn Adams to integrate changes from
Action-133 into the TTML 1.0 Second Edition -- due 2013-01-14
-- OPEN
<trackbot>
[25]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/136
[25] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/136
glenn: Still have issue if we need other changes. Do we delete
Appendix C?
sean: Table action given discussion.
Issue-199?
<trackbot> ISSUE-199 -- timeExpression to video frame
calculation is unclear in some cases -- raised
<trackbot>
[26]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/199
[26] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/199
mike: Contacted by implementers - timeExpression with frames.
How do we calculate the video frame?
... Cases where different time representations using clock with
frames that result in the same video frame.
... M->1 mapping OK.
... Glenn proposed a different algortihm to go to 1-1 with some
side effects. What is the best approach and give guidance in
TTML 1.0 SE.
... Issue exist for non-integer frame rates with timeExpression
with clock with frames.
glenn: Implementer may have come to different conclusions. What
was our original intent?
... Thread wasn't on public reflector.
sean: Glenn and Sean prepare a discussion document for Jan 17
or 24.
mike: Work with issue and what is on reflector.
plh: Will be gone Jan 17.
trackbot, end meeting
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Glenn Add "TTML" to name of SDP-US. Link:
[27]http://www.w3.org/TR/ttml10-sdp-us/ recorded in
[28]http://www.w3.org/2013/01/10-tt-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Glenn Correct font size in Example 2 in SDP-US.
[recorded in
[29]http://www.w3.org/2013/01/10-tt-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Glenn Delete 2 paragraphs after table in Appendix
B of SDP-US. [recorded in
[30]http://www.w3.org/2013/01/10-tt-minutes.html#action02]
[27] http://www.w3.org/TR/ttml10-sdp-us/
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
Received on Thursday, 10 January 2013 19:31:27 UTC