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RE: beginEnd002: par timeContainer and child with no duration

From: Sean Hayes <Sean.Hayes@microsoft.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 22:28:06 +0000
To: "Glenn A. Adams" <gadams@xfsi.com>, Philippe Le Hegaret <plh@w3.org>, "public-tt@w3.org" <public-tt@w3.org>
Message-ID: <90EEC9D914694641A8358AA190DACB3D2FCEAE893D@EA-EXMSG-C334.europe.corp.microsoft.com>

I agree with your data, however not your analysis; I believe my original (corrected) answer is the right one.

There are I think two ways to read our spec, and neither of them lead to your conclusion.

We explicitly constrain the implicit duration of a seq and par to be indefinite, thus, since the endsync behaviour of par is defined by its implicit duration, this would imply the endsync behaviour of last is not applied. If we wish endsync behaviour we need to change these constraints.

Notwithstanding that, even if we were to use endsync of "last" for par containers, this would reference the child with the last active duration; not the last lexical child, so since the rest of the par's have indefinite duration these would out last the p ending at 20s. Therefore the implicit duration of the div is [0,indefinite) and it would not end, since the last active child does not end, and the other p's will remain visible.

Sean Hayes
Media Acessibility Strategist
Accessibility Business Unit
Microsoft

Office:  +44 118 909 5867,
Mobile: +44 7875 091385
________________________________________
From: public-tt-request@w3.org [public-tt-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Glenn A. Adams [gadams@xfsi.com]
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 4:57 PM
To: Philippe Le Hegaret; public-tt@w3.org
Subject: RE: beginEnd002: par timeContainer and child with no duration

My answer is

> 3- all paragraphs will end at 20 (and begin at their respective times)
> because at least one of the children has a resolved duration

Which is the same as Sean's first response (not his "correction").

At present, the spec explicitly dictates the following for this example:

(1) per 7.1.3, body has an implied timeContainer="seq"
(2) per 7.1.4, div has an implied timeContainer="par"
(3) per 10.4 bullet 1, div has an implied dur="indefinite"
(4) per 10.2.4, each p has an implied timeContainer="par"
(5) per 10.4 bullet 1, each p has an implied dur="indefinite"
(6) per 10.4 bullet 1, each anonymous span has an implied
dur="indefinite"
(7) per 10.4 and smil2 10.4.1 (by reference), the simple duration of
each element below is its implicit duration, except for the last p which
specifies an active duration, i.e., both begin and end;
(8) per 10.4 and smil2 10.4.1 and 10.4.2 (by reference), the implicit
duration of a par time container is controlled by its endsync value,
with a default value of endSync="last" applying to par (since DFXP does
not explicitly support specification of endsync);
(9) per 10.4 and smil2 10.4.1 and 10.4.2 (by reference), the implicit
duration of a seq time container ends with the active end of its last
child;

Given the above, we can derive the following:

* implicit duration of Nth p in example is [N,20)
* implicit duration of div in example is [0,20)
* implicit duration of body in example is [0,20)

So, what should appear from the following example (according to the
spec) is:

# 00:00:00

This test counts from 0 to 10 in 10 seconds.
0

# 00:00:01

This test counts from 0 to 10 in 10 seconds.
0
This test counts from 0 to 10 in 10 seconds.
1

# 00:00:02

This test counts from 0 to 10 in 10 seconds.
0
This test counts from 0 to 10 in 10 seconds.
1
This test counts from 0 to 10 in 10 seconds.
2

# adds two lines each second until
# 00:00:10

This test counts from 0 to 10 in 10 seconds.
0
This test counts from 0 to 10 in 10 seconds.
1
This test counts from 0 to 10 in 10 seconds.
2
This test counts from 0 to 10 in 10 seconds.
3
This test counts from 0 to 10 in 10 seconds.
4
This test counts from 0 to 10 in 10 seconds.
5
This test counts from 0 to 10 in 10 seconds.
6
This test counts from 0 to 10 in 10 seconds.
7
This test counts from 0 to 10 in 10 seconds.
8
This test counts from 0 to 10 in 10 seconds.
9
This test counts from 0 to 10 in 10 seconds.
10

# 00:00:11

This test counts from 0 to 10 in 10 seconds.
0
This test counts from 0 to 10 in 10 seconds.
1
This test counts from 0 to 10 in 10 seconds.
2
This test counts from 0 to 10 in 10 seconds.
3
This test counts from 0 to 10 in 10 seconds.
4
This test counts from 0 to 10 in 10 seconds.
5
This test counts from 0 to 10 in 10 seconds.
6
This test counts from 0 to 10 in 10 seconds.
7
This test counts from 0 to 10 in 10 seconds.
8
This test counts from 0 to 10 in 10 seconds.
9
This test counts from 0 to 10 in 10 seconds.
10
This test is over.

# ... continues as above until
# 00:00:20
# when all content is removed


> -----Original Message-----
> From: public-tt-request@w3.org [mailto:public-tt-request@w3.org] On
Behalf Of Philippe
> Le Hegaret
> Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 5:44 AM
> To: public-tt@w3.org
> Subject: beginEnd002: par timeContainer and child with no duration
>
>
> We currently have the test beginEnd002 as follows:
> [[
>   <body>
>     <div>
>       <p begin='0s'>This test counts from 0 to 10 in 10
seconds.<br/>0</p>
>       <p begin='1s'>This test counts from 0 to 10 in 10
seconds.<br/>1</p>
>       <p begin='2s'>This test counts from 0 to 10 in 10
seconds.<br/>2</p>
>       <p begin='3s'>This test counts from 0 to 10 in 10
seconds.<br/>3</p>
>       <p begin='4s'>This test counts from 0 to 10 in 10
seconds.<br/>4</p>
>       <p begin='5s'>This test counts from 0 to 10 in 10
seconds.<br/>5</p>
>       <p begin='6s'>This test counts from 0 to 10 in 10
seconds.<br/>6</p>
>       <p begin='7s'>This test counts from 0 to 10 in 10
seconds.<br/>7</p>
>       <p begin='8s'>This test counts from 0 to 10 in 10
seconds.<br/>8</p>
>       <p begin='9s'>This test counts from 0 to 10 in 10
seconds.<br/>9</p>
>       <p begin='10s'>This test counts from 0 to 10 in 10
seconds.<br/>10</p>
>       <p begin='11s' end='20s'>This test is over.</p>
>     </div>
>   </body>
> ]]
>
> What is the expected behavior?
>
> 1- give up because the document is not conforming
>
> 2- only shows the last paragraph from 11 to 20 because the other
> paragraphs have unresolved durations (that's the behavior of JW FLV
> Media Player)
>
> 3- all paragraphs will end at 20 (and begin at their respective times)
> because at least one of the children has a resolved duration
>
> 4- the first 11 paragraphs will show for one second each and the last
> paragraph will show from 11 to 20 (that's what ccPlayer and Adobe are
> doing)
>
>
> Philippe
>
>
Received on Tuesday, 16 December 2008 22:28:50 GMT

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