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Minutes of TT WG Meeting on Nov 30 - Dec 02, 2004, Kingswood (BBC)

From: Thierry Michel <tmichel@w3.org>
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 18:01:04 +0100
To: <public-tt@w3.org>
Message-Id: <20050218170108.0DF4C4F22D@homer.w3.org>

Minutes of TT WG Meeting on Nov 30 - Dec 02, 2004, Kingswood (BBC)

Attendees

  Glenn Adams (XFSI, Chair, Scribe) [GA]
  Dick Bulterman (CWI) [DB], 1st day only
  Kees Blom (CWI) [KB], alternate for CWI
  Mike Evans (BBC), alternate for BBC, 1st day only
  Geoff Freed (WGBH/NCAM) [GF]
  Sean Hayes (MSFT) [SH] (phone)
  Dave Kirby (BBC) [DK]

Regrets

  Mike Dolan (Invited Expert)
  Thierry Michel (W3C) [TM]
  Erik Hodge (REAL) [EH]
  Dave Singer (Apple) [DS]

************************************************************************
************************************************************************
Agenda Items To Be Discussed
************************************************************************
************************************************************************

Consider Status of AFXP Activity

Review DFXP Feedback
  - EBU/AAF (J. Birch, E. Santos, O. Morgan)
  - TTWG (D. Singer, G. Freed, M. Dolan)
  - DIWG WG (A. Aguilera)
  - SYMM WG (Y. Gonno)
  - Public (D. Dooss)

Review Editorial Notes in DFXP

Plan DFXP 2nd Public WD
Plan DFXP Last Call
Plan DFXP Test Materials
WG Schedule Discussion
WG Recharter Discussion

************************************************************************
************************************************************************
Consider Status of AFXP Activity
************************************************************************
************************************************************************

[SH] Main features needed from AFXP include:

1. separation of timing from content
2. separation of styling from content (i.e., applicative model)

[GA] asks [SH] about separation of flow from content (i.e., applicative
flow), who responds that "the region mechanism in DFXP may suffice; this
is not critical feature".

[SH] Other imporant features needed:

3. I18N facilities (requires fonts)
4. embedded image
5. conditionalization (aka DIWG select mechanism)

[SH] Lower priority features:

6. speech generation (aural styling), embedded or linked audio

On Schedule Issue:

[DK] Prepared to support, but only if we can achieve closure by end of
2005 at very latest. Should have a firm timetable to stick to, and if it
becomes clear we can't make this timetable, then we pull trigger.

[SH] If we can get out AFXP draft in short order with main two features:
separated timing and styling, then would be sufficient to move forward.

[GA] We need to have public WD of AFXP by W3C Tech Plenary in early
March.

[SH] Notes need for style animation; may need in DFXP. [DK] and [GA]
concur.

[GF] Can commit to work through end of 2005.

[GA] Can commit as well through end of 2005.

[DK] Notes that charter included a 6-month maintenance period; this
may require that we attempt REC status earlier.

[GA] During maintenance period we could operate in monthly telecon mode
only.

************************************************************************
************************************************************************
Review DFXP Feedback
************************************************************************
************************************************************************

Collation of Comments

1. Content
I001   - should use xml:id instead of id; [16]  
2. Style
I002   - how to apply timeAction to style to time styling? [1] - item 1
I003   - how to express fonts that are intended to be 2 rows in height
         but 1 col in width? [1] - item 4, see also [5], [6]
I004   - row/col (cell) positioning is not fully worked out; can
	 a cell metric be used wherever dimensions are used? i.e.,
	 is it possible to use only cell positions without using
	 pixels? - from EBU meeting minutes; [DK] will send input
	 to reflector to be referenced; see also [11] - item 3, para 1;
	 [GA] during discussion, suggests font-size="1c;2c" meaning
	 font width/height, as possible way to address cell based
	 coordinates;
I005   - is combine attribute needed on region? [1] - 1st item 5
I006   - how to resolve rendering order for z-index unspecified or
	 equal to another region? [8,9] see also last editorial note
	 in Section 6.4 of current WD; see also [12] - item 19
I007   - can lengths be expressed in percentage? font size and region
	 origin and extent? - from EBU meeting minutes; [DK] will send
	 input to reflector to be referenced; [GA] currently
<percentage>
	 not supported in 1st PWD; see also [11] - item 3, para 2;
	 see also [12] - item 1
I008   - how is paint-on (snake) mode supported?; [DK] will send input
	 to reflector to be referenced; [GA] should we support temporal
	 flow properties such as proposed by J. Birch? see also [11]
I009   - thinks there is no support for oblique; [11] - item 5; [GA]
         he must have missed this in 5.2.8;
I010   - should we support reverse-oblique font style to handle CJK and
	 ME usage? [GA] raises this issue in meeting; J. Birch,
privately
	 replying to [DK] on this issue mentions the possible use of
	 an "oblique-angle" parameter, which could be positive or
negative,
	 in which case "reverse-oblique" would not be needed per se;
I011   - need to better consider the definition of text-outline
property?
	 how is it different from CSS text-shadow? how do primary glyph
	 and outline foreground colors blend? [SH] sill send input to
	 reflector to be referenced; see also [11] - item 5
I012   - should we support fade-in/fade-out (i.e., transitions) of
	 text? - from EBU meeting minutes; [DK] will send
	 input to reflector to be referenced; see also [11] - item 5;
I013   - no support for "stripe mode" or "boxing mode" [11] - item 5;
         [GA] not familiar with these notions;
I014   - thinks (incorrectly) that background color isn't supported on
	 content (separately from region) [12] - item 2; [GA] section
	 5.2.2 shows background-color applying to all of region, div,
	 p, and span (separately); perhaps we could improve example to
	 show all of these;
I015   - questions 2nd editorial note in 6.4, dealing with issue of
         region background color; [12] - item 21;
I016   - suggests supporting RGBA instead of just RGB; questions use
	 of "transparent"; [12] - item 3; see also [12] - item 20;
	 see also [13] - item S-1;
I017   - questions whether named colors shouldn't be referencing another
         spec instead of repeating; [12] - item 13;
I018   - need to define what font size refers to; [12] - item 14;
I019   - questions ability to refer to other keywords that denote font
         style or weight; [12] - item 15;
I020   - questions style property name "line-height"; [12] - item 16;
I021   - wants more semantics around "overflow" style property; [12] -
         item 17;
I022   - is more definition of wrapping behavior required? [12] - item
18;
I023   - [DB] questions characterizing ttm:content-extent as metadata;
         may have same concerns for ttm:frame-extent, ttm:frame-origin;
I024   - [DB] proposes to remove ttm:content-origin and change from
	 ttm:content-frame to introduct a root-layout element; will send
	 proposal to reflector;
I025   - proposes supporting external fonts by allowing font family
         to take url('...') construct defined by CSS; [13] - item S-2
3. Timing
I026   - how to express SMPTE time codes? [1] - item 2; see also [2,3];
         see also [13] - item T-1;
I027   - how to express frame rates? [1] - item 2
I028   - whether frame rate can be called metadata? [1] - item 3; see
         also [11] - item 2;
I029   - proposes "timebase" element or attribute be used to define
         default time standard (walltime, SMPTE timecode behavior,
julian
         date) [11] - item 2;
I030   - whether a single document can simultaneously express times
	 that use different frame rates, e.g., smpte-30 and smpte-25 in
	 same document?
I031   - whether correlated with future SMPTE proposals? [1] - item 2;
         see also [4] - item 1
I032   - suggests alternative time expression syntax that makes hours
         and minutes optional [2,3]
I033   - suggests dropping different smpte-* labels and use only "smpte"
         in concert with frame-rate parameter; [4] - item 1
I034   - wants to ensure consistency of timing semantics between
         TTAF and SMIL; [13] - item T-0
I035   - not certain about default behavior of timeContainer; [13] -
         item T-2;
I036   - would like example for *smpte-marker-expression*; [13] - item
T-3;
I055   - should we support fill behavior as in SMIL or some subset? [DB]
4. Metadata
I037   - whether ttm:cell-resolution, ttm:content-extent, and
         ttm:frame-extent are general or only applicable to western
         teletext? [1] - item 4
I038   - whether ttm:pixel-aspect-ratio is needed? [1] - 2nd item 5
I039   - whether ttm:role is needed? needs more text; [1] - item 6;
         see proposed text in [7]
I040   - values of ttm:role conflict with those in EIA-708; [4] - item
2;
         see also [12]
I041   - what is difference metadata in head and body? [10] - item 1
         would like to see example of usage and possibly guidelines;
I042   - would like to see metadata in head that announces presence
         of languages in DFXP document instance - from EBU meeting
         minutes; [DK] will send input to reflector to be referenced;
I043   - would like to categorize subtitles in standard way - from EBU
         meeting minutes; [DK] will send input to reflector to be
         referenced;
I044   - what is metadata and what is not? some think that any
	 information that is mandatory to the interpretation of data
must
	 not be called metadata on the theory that metadata can always
be
	 removed - from EBU meeting minutes; [DK] will send input to
	 reflector to be referenced;
I045   - would like better language that characterizes the optionality
         of metadata from a processing perspective; [13] - item M-1
I046   - wonders if metadata attribures should be defined in an
         informative manner; [13] - item M-2
5. Other
I047   - how can DFXP document instances be streamed while periodically
	 updating various metadata? [10] - item 1; [GA] notes existence
	 of ISO/IEC 15938-1:2002 Clause 7 Binary Format - BiM (Binary
	 format for multimedia description streams); i.e., MPEG7 part 1,
	 which provides general mechanism for streaming fragments of
	 XML documents wherein fragments are periodically updatable;
	 see also MPEG-2 Part 1 2000 Amendment 1 (2003) which defines
	 synchronized metadata carriage in metadata access units in
	 PES stream;
I048   - proposes to add references to shared style, timing, metadata
	 documents using xs:anyURI as opposed to only inline and
referencing
	 via IDREF [10]
I049   - is DFXP overly complex for subtitling? should there be a
smaller
	 profile (should inline styling be disallowed?) - from EBU
meeting
	 minutes; [DK] will send input to reflector to be referenced; 
I050   - would like to see ability to have same DFXP file be used for
	 multiple languages, multiple screen resolutions/aspect ratios,
	 multiple frame rates... [11] item 1 - DFXP Structure
6. Typos/Wording
I051   - Section 1, Example Fragment - DFXP Styling, need to change
         text-align="after" to text-align="end"; [12] - item 4;
I052   - Section 1, in para before Subtitles 6a and 6b, change "the
appear"
         to "they appear"; [12] - item 5;
I053   - Editorial note after Table 1 should have "month (11)" not
         "month (10)"; [12] - item 6;
I054   - questions meaning of last sentence of 3rd para of section
4.1.5;
         [12] - item 11;

************************************************************************
EBU/AAF (D. Kirby, O. Morgan, J. Birch, E. Santos)
************************************************************************

* D. Kirby [1], O. Morgan [2], J. Birch [3,11]

[1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2004Nov/0017.html
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2004Nov/0057.html
[3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2004Nov/0058.html
[11] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2004Nov/0043.html

* E. Santos [10]

[10] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2004Nov/0053.html

Action: [DK] to submit input from EBU/AAF adhoc on following topics:
(1) use of metadata to announce languages used in document; (2) use
of metadata to categorize subtitles, e.g., closed vs open;

Action: [SH] to submit message to reflector on text-outline issue;

[DB] may consider use of fill="freeze" to allow not specifying end
times on spans in a p that is being rendered while simulating
paint-on mode.

************************************************************************
TTWG (M. Dolan [4, 4a], G. Adams [5,9], D. Kirby [6,7,8],
D. Singer [12], D. Bultermann, G. Freed)
************************************************************************

[4] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2004Nov/0026.html
[4a] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2004Oct/0024.html
[5] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2004Oct/0073.html
[6] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2004Oct/0081.html
[7] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2004Oct/0023.html
[8] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2004Nov/0018.html
[9] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2004Oct/0092.html
[12] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2004Nov/0054.html

Action: [GF] to update example of background-color to include different
colors for div, p and span.

Action: [GF] to review style examples for need to add depictions of
enumerated values of styles;

Action: [GA] Remove last sentence of 3rd para of 4.1.5; see [12] -
item 11.

Action: [GA] Address typos reported by [12] - items 4-10, 12

Action: [DB] to send proposal for using root-layout element to
reflector.

[DB] Raises potential need for notion of required features or support
in some processor in order to present/process document.

[DB] makes proposal that results in following resolution.

Resolution: to modify system model (figure 1) in TT-AF-1-0-REQ (and
to add copy into DFXP spec) that adds second level of transformations
from AFXP to DFXP, shows the box between ASs to use AFXP, and also
depicts that AFXP and DFXP may be directly used as distribution formats.
Also remove note after figure 1 in TT-AF-1-0-REQ.

[*] No objections to adoption of the prior resolution.

[DB] proposes to include only those features in DFXP that are relevant
to a flattened distribution format, i.e., assuming AFXP will exist and
can be transformed to DFXP, then the purpose of DFXP is lighter weight.

[GA] believes we already have common understanding along these lines,
requests that [DB] or others present cases for excluding currently
documented features in DFXP.

************************************************************************
DIWG WG (A. Aguilera)
************************************************************************

[14] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2004Nov/0010.html

[GA] doesn't appear to have any actionable comments, other than
notifying
DIWG when new draft is available that covers conformance.

Action: [KB] to review metadata for content adaptation workshop
presentations [15] to see if there is relevant input to our work on
DFXP.

[15] http://www.w3.org/2004/06/DI-MCA-WS/

************************************************************************
SYMM WG (Y. Gonno)
************************************************************************

[13] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/symm/2004Nov/0052.html

************************************************************************
>From Public (D. Dooss)
************************************************************************

[16] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2004Nov/0005.html

************************************************************************
First Order Sort of Comments
************************************************************************

Complex

I002 - timeAction = "style" [GA]
I008 - paint-on, snake mode styles [GA]
I012 - fade/transition support [DB]

[
  I026 - expression of smpte time codes [DK] with [MD] help
  I026 - expression of frame rates [DK] with [MD] help
  I028 - whether to call frame rate metadata? [DK] with [MD] help
  I029 - proposed "timebase" element [DK] with [MD] help
  I030 - multiple simultaneous frame rates? [DK] with [MD] help
  I031 - future SMPTE proposals [DK] with [MD] help
  I032 - alternative time expression  [DK] with [MD] help
  I033 - replacing multiple smpte-* lables with single label [DK]
]

I044 - on metadata [DB]

Possibly Complex

I003 - font-size="1c;2c"
I004 - origin="10c;30c" extent="20c;30c"
I011 - text-outline [GF] with [SH]'s help
I023 - frame-extent, frame-content, content-* parameters [DB]
I024 - removal of content-origin, change content-frame [DB]
I037 - use of grid (cell) coordinates and non-western text

Not Complex [GA] to handle by default if no volunteers.

I005
I006
I007
I009
I010
I013 - striping, boxing mode [DK]
I014 - support for background color on content
I015
I016 - RGBA [GA] would also need to add opacity
I017 - source of definition of named colors
I018 - definition of font-size
I019 - other keywords for font style/weight
I020 - line-height as property name
I021 - semantics of overflow
I022 - line wrapping behavior
I025 - font-family="uri('http://...')"
I034 - tt and smil timing consistency
I035 - default behavior of timeContainer
I036 - example for smpte marker expression
I038 - pixel aspect ratio needed?
I039 - is ttm:role needed?
I040 - values of ttm:role and eia708
I041 - difference of metadata in head and body
I042 - metadata that announces language usage
I045 - language that characterizes optionality of metadata [DB]
I046 - informative definition of metadata
I047 - how to stream DFXP? action to [EH]|[DS] in their absence
I048 - references to external style, timing, metadata
I049 - is DFXP overly complex?
I050 - ability to express multiple langages, frame rates, in one doc

************************************************************************
************************************************************************
Editor Note Review
************************************************************************
************************************************************************

************************************************************************
Ed. Note: xml:space default semantics
************************************************************************

Resolution: that the meaning of xml:space="default" is to normalize
whitespace in TT application, but need to define "normalize".

Action: [GA] to investigate and propose definition of whitespace
normalization to apply when xml:space="default".

************************************************************************
Ed. Note: profile attribute on <tt/>
************************************************************************

Resolution: to add "profile" attribute on <tt/> with values expressed
in a form similar to namespace URIs, with following initial list:

http://www.w3.org/2004/11/ttaf1#profile-dfxp
http://www.w3.org/2004/11/ttaf1#profile-afxp

[With subsequent change to dates above.]

Action: [GA] add language under namespace and/or conventions section
that
indicates that if an element type is used unqualified in spec then it is
in tt: namespace.

************************************************************************
Ed. Note: on adding tts:display, tts:visible, for timeAction="style"
************************************************************************

[SH] Mentions that we had an email thread related to timeAction="style",
starting at [17]

[17] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2004Oct/0057.html

[SH] proposes to only use timeAction="style", in which case we don't
need timeAction; i.e., it will have "style" as default value; then
introduce tts:display and tts:visibility.

Example #1 - existing normal caption on/off behavior

<p begin="0" end="10">CAPTION</p>

is equivalent to

<p begin="0" end="10" timeAction="style" tts:display="auto">CAPTION</p>

Example #2 - existing normal caption on/off behavior plus red color

<p begin="0" end="10" tts:color="red">CAPTION</p>

is equivalent to

<p begin="0" end="10" tts:color="red"
   timeAction="style" tts:display="auto">
  CAPTION
</p>

Example #3 - existing normal caption on/off behavior plus delayed
red color

<p begin="0" end="10">
 <span begin="2" end="8" timeAction="style" tts:color="red">
   CAPTION
 </span>
</p>

is equivalent to

<p begin="0" end="10" timeAction="style" tts:display="auto">
 <span begin="0" end="2" timeAction="style" tts:display="auto">
   CAPTION
 </span>
 <span begin="2" end="8" timeAction="style" tts:color="red"
tts:display="auto">
   CAPTION
 </span>
 <span begin="8" end="10" timeAction="style" tts:display="auto">
   CAPTION
 </span>
</p>

Action: [GA] need to add definition of "S" non-terminal used in 5.2.5.

Tentative Conclusion: needs further study; it may be preferable to
introduce <set/> element as child of content element to assign
timed style to content, such as in following example:

<p begin="0" end="10">
<set begin="2" end="8" tts:color="red"/>
CAPTION
</p>

Action: [GA] consider need for tts:display in context of using <set/>.

<p begin="0" end="10">
<set begin="2" end="8" tts:color="red"/>
CAPTION
</p>

<set begin="2" end="8" attributeName="tts:color" to="red"/>

<animate begin="2" end="8" attributeName="tts:color" from="red"
to="green"/>

<animate begin="2" end="8" attributeName="tts:color" from="red"
to="green"/>

<animate begin="2" end="8" tts:color="red;green" calcMode=""/>

[DB]/[SH] propose rationalizing hyphen-ated vs camelCase.

Resolution: Change all names to camelCase form.

[*] No objection.

Action: [GA] Change all names to camelCase form.

[SH] wants us to carefully consider full names as opposed to truncated
forms.

[SH] proposes use of animate element and set is not needed, e.g.,

<set begin="2" end="8" tts:color="red"/>

Resolution: Support <set/> element as children of content elts, can
take standard timing attrs, can take exactly one style attr, is
equivalent to <animate calcMode="discrete"/>, does not take
attributeName attr or attributeType attr as used with SVG/SMIL.
Formalize syntax of {any attr ...} as used in XML syntax
representations. Introduce {any attr} [i.e., w/o ...] to mean single
attr.

[GA] notes that the above resolution appears to address issue I002.

Resolution: add informative annex to DFXP that enumerates TTAF1REQ
items and indicates, full, partial, no support, explaining partial
support, and referencing DFXP sections that satisfy.

Resolution: Defer fade/transition support from DFXP unless major
objections on its absence; if we must add, then add only fade by
providing linear animation support only on new tts:opacity property.
Report to commenters that WG plans to support this feature in AFXP.

[GA] notes that the above resolution appears to address issue I012.

************************************************************************
************************************************************************
WG Charter Extension
************************************************************************
************************************************************************

Resolution: That TTWG's charter be extended for 12 months through
the end of December 2005, with no change in scope, and with following
deliverable schedule:

1 Minimum Deliverables

12/15/04 DFXP Internal WD Update
01/15/05 DFXP LC
03/15/05 DFXP LC Disposition of Comments
04/15/05 DFXP CR
07/15/05 DFXP PR
08/15/05 DFXP REC

2 Maximum Deliverables (including above minimums)

02/01/05 AFXP 1st PWD
04/15/05 AFXP LC
06/15/05 AFXP CR
08/15/05 AFXP PR
10/15/05 AFXP REC

[*] Adopted with no objection.

Question Put To Members: Will you as an organization actively
support this extension request: [GA] for XFSI, yes; [GF] for WGBH,
yes; [DB] for CWI, yes (but, at this time, can commit resources only
through July 2005); [DK] for BBC, yes (if timetable slips, may review
this commitment); [SH] for MSFT, yes.

************************************************************************
************************************************************************
Editor Note Review (cont.)
************************************************************************
************************************************************************

************************************************************************
Ed. Note: on adding tts:display, tts:visiblity.
************************************************************************

Resolution: do not add tts:display, since in with timeAction="display",
it can be implemented simply with time activation/deactivation.

<span begin="0" dur="10">
  <set begin="2" dur="6" tts:display="none"/>
  SPAN
</span>

same as

<span begin="0" dur="2">SPAN</span>
<span begin="8" dur="10">SPAN</span>

[*] No objection. If anyone can think of use case, then reconsider.

Resolution: do add tts:visibility.

[*] No objection.

Resolution: do not add timeAction="style"; rather, use <set/> as
described above.

Resolution: remove timeAction attribute completely now that we have
animation of tts:visibility. Use temporal region layout semantics to
formally describe how temporal activation brings content into scope
for layout (i.e., display) purposes.

************************************************************************
Ed. Note: on semantics of display-align="auto"
************************************************************************

Resolution: remove display-align's "auto" value, making "before" the
initial value, since we don't have relative-align property as defined
by XSL. See [18]

[18]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2001/REC-xsl-20011015/slice7.html#display-align

************************************************************************
Ed. Note: on initial value of font-size
************************************************************************

[SH] Notes that DC28.10 uses 1/11 of viewport height.

Resolution: if content-extent is defined in cells, then initial
font-size is
1 cell by 1 cell; otherwise, it is content-extent.height / 23.

************************************************************************
Ed. Note: on defining font-family="default"
************************************************************************

Action: [GA] Remove editorial note in 5.3.4; already covered by text in
2nd paragraph.

Action: [GA] Add text to 5.3.4, saying that the concrete font used to
map monospace-* and proportional-* should be monospace, proportional,
etc.

************************************************************************
Ed. Note: on syntax of quoted string
************************************************************************

Action: [GA] further research required on quoted-string.

************************************************************************
Ed. Note: Section 6.4, on background color of region
************************************************************************

Resolution: background color of region is displayed whether or not
content is selected into it;

************************************************************************
Ed. Note: Section 8.1.5, on definitions of ttm:agent
************************************************************************

Example #1

<p ttm:agent="bluebottle">
  <ttm:agent id="peter_sellers" type="person">
    <ttm:name type="full">Peter Sellers</ttm:name>
  </ttm:agent>
  <ttm:agent id="bluebottle" type="character">
    <ttm:name type="full">Bluebottle</ttm:name>
    <ttm:actor agent="peter_sellers"/>
  </ttm:agent>
  Yimbum bullaboo, itchy kitchy coo
</p>

Example #2

<head>
  <ttm:agent id="peter_sellers" type="person">
    <ttm:name type="full">Peter Sellers</ttm:name>
  </ttm:agent>
  <ttm:agent id="bluebottle" type="character">
    <ttm:name type="full">Bluebottle</ttm:name>
    <ttm:actor agent="peter_sellers"/>
  </ttm:agent>
</head>
<p ttm:agent="bluebottle">Yimbum bullaboo, itchy kitchy coo</p>

Resolution: to support definition of agents only as child of either
/tt/head or /tt/head/meta.

************************************************************************
Ed. Note: Section 8.1.5, on multiple ttm:actor children of ttm:agent
************************************************************************

Resolution: do not support multiple ttm:actor children; rather author
can use multiple ttm:agent defines that share same character name
but reference different actors.

************************************************************************
Ed. Note: on attribution of goon show quotes
************************************************************************

Action: [DK] to obtain permission and propose language for proper
attribution in acknowledgments annex.

[DK] asks about listing of members of WG for attributing work.

[GA] proposes to change "Editor" in document heading to "Authors" and
then to list active contributors to document.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Next F2F Meeting
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Mar 03-05/2005 - Boston, MA (dependent on charter extension)

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START SUMMARY
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*** RESOLUTIONS ***

Resolution: to modify system model (figure 1) in TT-AF-1-0-REQ (and
to add copy into DFXP spec) that adds second level of transformations
from AFXP to DFXP, shows the box between ASs to use AFXP, and also
depicts that AFXP and DFXP may be directly used as distribution formats.
Also remove note after figure 1 in TT-AF-1-0-REQ.

Resolution: that the meaning of xml:space="default" is to normalize
whitespace in TT application, but need to define "normalize".

Resolution: to add "profile" attribute on <tt/> with values expressed
in a form similar to namespace URIs, with following initial list:

http://www.w3.org/2004/11/ttaf1#profile-dfxp
http://www.w3.org/2004/11/ttaf1#profile-afxp

Resolution: Change all names to camelCase form.

Resolution: Support <set/> element as children of content elts, can
take standard timing attrs, can take exactly one style attr, is
equivalent to <animate calcMode="discrete"/>, does not take
attributeName attr or attributeType attr as used with SVG/SMIL.
Formalize syntax of {any attr ...} as used in XML syntax
representations. Introduce {any attr} [i.e., w/o ...] to mean single
attr.

Resolution: add informative annex to DFXP that enumerates TTAF1REQ
items and indicates, full, partial, no support, explaining partial
support, and referencing DFXP sections that satisfy.

Resolution: Defer fade/transition support from DFXP unless major
objections on its absence; if we must add, then add only fade by
providing linear animation support only on new tts:opacity property.
Report to commenters that WG plans to support this feature in AFXP.

Resolution: That TTWG's charter be extended for 12 months through
the end of December 2005, with no change in scope, and with following
deliverable schedule:

1 Minimum Deliverables

12/15/04 DFXP Internal WD Update
01/15/05 DFXP LC
03/15/05 DFXP LC Disposition of Comments
04/15/05 DFXP CR
07/15/05 DFXP PR
08/15/05 DFXP REC

2 Maximum Deliverables (including above minimums)

02/01/05 AFXP 1st PWD
04/15/05 AFXP LC
06/15/05 AFXP CR
08/15/05 AFXP PR
10/15/05 AFXP REC

Resolution: do not add tts:display, since in with timeAction="display",
it can be implemented simply with time activation/deactivation.

Resolution: do add tts:visibility.

Resolution: do not add timeAction="style"; rather, use <set/> as
described above.

Resolution: remove timeAction attribute completely now that we have
animation of tts:visibility. Use temporal region layout semantics to
formally describe how temporal activation brings content into scope
for layout (i.e., display) purposes.

Resolution: remove display-align's "auto" value, making "before" the
initial value, since we don't have relative-align property as defined
by XSL. See [18]

Resolution: if content-extent is defined in cells, then initial
font-size is
1 cell by 1 cell; otherwise, it is content-extent.height / 23.

Resolution: background color of region is displayed whether or not
content is selected into it;

Resolution: to support definition of agents only as child of either
/tt/head or /tt/head/meta.

Resolution: do not support multiple ttm:actor children; rather author
can use multiple ttm:agent defines that share same character name
but reference different actors.

*** NEW ACTION ITEMS ***

Action: [DK] to submit input from EBU/AAF adhoc on following topics:
(1) use of metadata to announce languages used in document; (2) use
of metadata to categorize subtitles, e.g., closed vs open;

Action: [SH] to submit message to reflector on text-outline issue;

Action: [GF] to update example of background-color to include different
colors for div, p and span.

Action: [GF] to review style examples for need to add depictions of
enumerated values of styles;

Action: [GA] Remove last sentence of 3rd para of 4.1.5; see [12] -
item 11.

Action: [GA] Address typos reported by [12] - items 4-10, 12

Action: [DB] to send proposal for using root-layout element to
reflector.

Action: [KB] to review metadata for content adaptation workshop
presentations [15] to see if there is relevant input to our work on
DFXP.

Action: [GA] to investigate and propose definition of whitespace
normalization to apply when xml:space="default".

Action: [GA] add language under namespace and/or conventions section
that
indicates that if an element type is used unqualified in spec then it is
in tt: namespace.

Action: [GA] need to add definition of "S" non-terminal used in 5.2.5.

Action: [GA] consider need for tts:display in context of using <set/>.

Action: [GA] Change all names to camelCase form.

Action: [GA] Remove editorial note in 5.3.4; already covered by text in
2nd paragraph.

Action: [GA] Add text to 5.3.4, saying that the concrete font used to
map monospace-* and proportional-* should be monospace, proportional,
etc.

Action: [GA] further research required on quoted-string.

Action: [DK] to obtain permission and propose language for proper
attribution in acknowledgments annex.

*** OPEN ACTION ITEMS ***

Action: [EH] Provide use cases in TT context for priority class attr
usage.

Action: [SH] To elaborate use cases for audio embed usage.

Action: [GA] to generalize and clearly articulate [MD] feedback on XBC
with TT-AF structured timing as use case, then send to WG for review
prior to forwarding to XBC.

Action: [GA] need to document conventions regarding normative definition
of element vocabulary and syntax used therein.

Action: [GA] need to characterize definitions of vocabulary as normative
while supplied schemas are informative.

Action: [GA] review recent proposed changes regarding xml:space from
XML Core Working Group with view of changing our vocabulary definitions
as necessary.

Action: [GA] restore nested <div/> in content model.

Action: [GA] ensure that background color applies to content elements
as well as region.

Action: [GA] change language in vocab element defs that defines equiv
class of attrs in foreign namespace to not admit unqualified attrs.

Action: [GA] need to ensure that we document whether time intervals
are half-opened intervals or closed. We always use half-opened intervals
for [begin,end) = [begin,begin+dur).

Action: [GA] ensure there is language that gives precendence to
end over dur in case both are specified.

Action: [GA] remove region attribute from span element.

Action: [GA], prompted by [SH], need to define what is meant by begin
attribute on <body>.

Action: [KB] lookup whether default time container for SMIL body is
seq or par. Report back by tomorrow (9/16).

Action: [GA] add table indicating default values for timeContainer.

Action: [GA] remove nested <span> support from schema and span
element definition.

Action: [GA] Update schema to permit multiple tts:* attributes on
style element.

Action: [GA] make style attribute IDREFS instead of ID.

Action: [GA] add style attribute to <g/>.

Action: [GA] change region so that it uses style attribute to
refer to styles in addition to defining them inline as children.

Action: [GA] need to establish precedence for different style
association mechanisms as follows, with priority order as follows:
(1) inline, (2) referential or chained referential, (3) region
referential. In case that referential or chained referential results
in a diamond graph, then last instance of style in pre-order depth
first traversal wins.

Action: [SH] will research issue of interaction of combination rule
#2 and region referential styling.

Action: [GA] add <p> and <span> to list of elements to which
background-color applies

Action: [GA] change initial value of color style property to
transparent. [N.B. consequence of this is that unless author
specifies a color, then content will be invisible.]

Action: [GA] restore "inherit" value for style properties.

Action: [GA] specify language about meaning of line height.

Action: [GA] formulate proposal to express coordinates in rows
and columns and to express total # of rows/cols for which content was
composed.

Action: [GA] change DFXP schema and WD to use <meta> instead of
<metadata>.

Action: [DK] Discuss with [MD] how to express pull-down parameters to
completely characterize frame and field composition.

Action: [GA] need to add following metadata items to schema and spec:
ttm:frame-rate ttm:frame-width ttm:frame-height
ttm:pixel-aspect-ratio ttm:content-width ttm:content-height
ttm:content-x ttm:content-y ttm:horizontal-resolution
ttm:vertical-resolution.

Action: [GA] need to specify semantics for each metadata item, need
to specify what it means if multiple items with same name are present
in some context, and if not permitted, expected behavior.

Action: [GA] add definitions of following metadata elements to schema
and spec for DFXP: ttm:agent, ttm:name, ttm:givenName,
ttm:familyName, ttm:actor. Also add ttm:agent attribute to <p> and
<span>.

Action: [GA] add ttm:title, ttm:description, ttm:copyright to schema
and spec for DFXP.

Action: [GA] ensure that all elements can also take ttm:* attributes,
but need to define in context of specific elements which ones have
standard semantics.

Action: [GA] define semantics of ttm:agent metadata attribute such that
inner specifications override outer specifications, e.g.,

Action: [GA] change text-shadow to text-outline with value syntax as
follows: none | <color> <thickness> <blur-radius>, where thickness and
blur-radius are expressed as <length>.

Action: [GA] add span to wrap-option "applies to".

Action: [GA] for each AFXP style property that we don't include in DFXP,
need to specify a normative default value for DFXP, but do so in a way
that doesn't require normative use of AFXP specification.

Action: [GA] since <color>s are opaque, need to say so in verbiage.

Action: [GA] Remove misspelled "monotype" entry from <generic-family-
name>, and replace it with "default". All other entries are also to be
removed for present time.

Action: [GA] Add row/col units to <length> style value expression.

Action: [GA] Ensure that if we define overflow="clip" on region that
we say that outermost region is expected to be clipped in all cases.

Action: [GA] change overflow attribute on region to use tts:overflow
style property, which applies only to region, and which supports values:
visible, hidden, inherit.

Action: [GA] Change clock-value syntax to support expressing optional
frames and subframes in order to express NPT media times. Define clock
value semantically to be NPT for TT media object. Remove optional "+"
value from offset-expression (in which case we don't need "offset-
expression" intermediate term).

Action: [GA] allow style to use style attribute to refer to other
styles, since we effectively now allow <style> to work like a group of
styles.

Action: [GA] remove "div" from display-align's applies to list. Can't
apply to div since div has no explicit height/width.

Action: [GA] Add ttm:default-time-metric metadata item. Takes
values that are one of time-count metric, e.g., "h", "m", "s",
"f", etc.

Action: [GA] send John's document to WG reflector, then (at some point
in future) ask him to send to public list so it can be handled as public
submission.

Action: [GA] Add informative Annex to DFXP spec which enumerates the
requirements of TT-AF-1-0-REQ which are intentionally not intended to
be met in DFXP.

Action: [KB] Review the March 2002 TT Task Force requirements to see if
the current TT-AF-1-0-REQ does not include all those earlier
requirements,
and if not, then make a case for including in TT-AF-1-0-REQ. [TM] will
help as required and report back to WG.

Action: [DB] to send draft intro text with example by Monday (10/04).

Action: [MD] to send normative text descriptions of SMPTE marker labels.
Will send after returning from vacation in a week's time.

Action: [DS] to send font registration I-D to IETF editors for
publishing.

Action: [MD] to send normative text descriptions of SMPTE marker labels.
Will send after returning from vacation in a week's time.

Action: [GA] To make necessary chanes to DFXP draft to support ttm:desc
and ttm:title in contexts where tt:meta can appear.

Action: [GA] To send minutes with attached lastest draft (in the form
of an "editor's copy") of DFXP to public TT reflector by end of day
on Oct 18 unless objection arises from some member.

Action: [GA] send email to reflector on need to distinguish between
outer media time and timebase time (based on parent relationships);
issue
is as follows: if you have begin="00:00:01", then does this denote
1 sec in time base established by parent element, or does it denote
1 sec into the TT media object (independently of parent timebases)?
Can one mix both timebase times and outer media times?

Action: [GA] to complete DFXP draft 6 and sent to member reflector
by noon ET on Tuesday, 10/26/04, then work with [TM] to request
publishing as Public WD.

Action: [TM] to draft request for [GA] to send to appropriate parties
to begin process of advancing DFXP to public WD.

Action: [GA] To verify that TTPRO DB is well configured to handle
DFXP comments.

Action: [DK] To help verify that TTPRO DB is populated with open
DFXP issues.

Action: [GA] Will resolve any issues about having F2F with W3T
(Philipp Hoschka) and report results.

Action: [GA] To send notice to reflector and request Thierry to post
standard meeting participation info.

Action: [MD] Will review and propose changes/additions as necessary
regarding ttm:role values.

Action: [MD] Will review and propose changes/additions as necessary
regarding ttm:frame-rate and use of time values.

*** URIs ***

[ 1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2004Nov/0017.html
[ 2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2004Nov/0057.html
[ 3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2004Nov/0058.html
[ 4] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2004Nov/0026.html
[4a] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2004Oct/0024.html
[ 5] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2004Oct/0073.html
[ 6] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2004Oct/0081.html
[ 7] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2004Oct/0023.html
[ 8] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2004Nov/0018.html
[ 9] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2004Oct/0092.html
[10] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2004Nov/0053.html
[11] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2004Nov/0043.html
[12] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2004Nov/0054.html
[13] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/symm/2004Nov/0052.html
[14] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2004Nov/0010.html
[15] http://www.w3.org/2004/06/DI-MCA-WS/
[16] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2004Nov/0005.html
[17] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2004Oct/0057.html

*** NEXT MEETING DATES ***

Normal CC schedule.

Mar 03-05/2005 - Boston, MA (dependent on charter extension)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
END SUMMARY
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++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Thierry MICHEL
W3C/ERCIM 
Received on Friday, 18 February 2005 17:01:15 GMT

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