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Minutes of TT WG Teleconference on 10/30/03

From: Thierry MICHEL <tmichel@w3.org>
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 18:05:22 +0100
To: <public-tt@w3.org>
Message-ID: <005f01c3d6d2$c57792d0$0200a8c0@wistiti>


Minutes of TT WG Teleconference on 10/30/03

Attendees

  Glenn Adams (XFSI, Chair, Scribe) [GA]
  Sean Hayes (Microsoft) [SH]
  Erik Hodge (RealNetworks) [EH]
  Geoff Freed (WGBH/NCAM) [GF1]

Regrets

  Dave Singer (Apple) [DS]
  David Kirby (BBC) [DK]
  Thierry Michel (W3C) [TM]
  Mike Dolan (Invited Expert) [MD]

Absent

  Brad Botkin (WGBH/NCAM) [BB]
  George Kerscher (Daisy) [GK]
  Gerry Field (WGBH/NCAM) [GF2]
  Markku Hakkinen (JSRPD) [MH]
  Markus Gylling (Daisy) [MG]

************************************************************************
Agenda
************************************************************************

1. Review Open Action Items
2. Review Open Issues
3. Minimum Profile Discussion
4. Continuation of agenda from F2F

************************************************************************
1. Review Open Actions
************************************************************************

Action: [GA] To send notice to SMPTE, WAI, I18N, SYMM, SVG requesting
final comments on TT-AF-1-0-REQ by Nov 1.

Done. Changed to Dec 1.

Action: [DS] To send notice to MPEG, IETF, and 3GPP requesting
final comments on TT-AF-1-0-REQ by Nov 1.

Done. Changed to Dec 1.

Action: [MG] To send notice to Daisy requesting final comments on
TT-AF-1-0-REQ by Nov 1.

[GA] Notified [MG] to send notice. Remind [MG] as Geoff hasn't seen it
on Daisy list.

Action: [BB] To determine semantics of form-feed (FF) and report back.
To also check on HCR (0x0E) semantics.

Done.

Action: [GA] Request XML Schema WG revise definition of xs:Language to
use RFC3066.

Closed. XML Schema Part 2 already updated. See errata.

Action: [SH] Will investigate use of media queries in this context and
report back.

Ongoing.

Action: [DS with help of Paul Nelson and Peter Lofting] Write RFC to
register appropriate opentype/truetype font types as MIME media types,
suggest model of "application/font-<font-type-name>", e.g.,
"application/font-truetype".

No new info.

Action: [GA] Discuss semantics of origin with XSL WG as required to
resolve.

Closed.

Resolution: adopt SVG/SMIL semantics for origin, x, and y
properties as coordinates in 4th quadrant. N.B. may place burden
on specifying positions for RL-TB and TB-RL writing modes.

[SH] This doesn't preclude us from defining a writing mode sensitive
origin property at a later date.

Action: [EH] and [GF] provide input on features they think are out
of scope for basic profile.

Done. See [1] and [2].

[1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2003Oct/0026.html
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2003Oct/0027.html

Action: [GA] Make proposal regarding use of Xlink vocabulary or
"src" attribute.

Not done.

Action: [GF] Investigate whether to use IRIs instead of URIs?
Note: XPointer and Namespaces in 1.1 use IRIs?

[GF] Learned so far: IRIs encompass
URIs, so we should be safe. In a note from Martin Duerst, all
W3C technologies will start specifying use of IRIs. Hasn't found
out if anyone is implementing them. One question about switching
encodings of IRIs in the same document. Will perform further
research.

Action: [SH] Investigate use of "role" vs "class" attribute.

[SH] Ongoing. Will come down to how we are applying style sheets.

New Action: [GA] Send out pointer to TEI definition.

Action: [GF] and [EH] Investigate need for hierachical region
definitions.

Closed.

Resolution: Need in spec but not as basic feature.

Action: [GA] Investigate selection of non-TT vocabulary for
application of style/timing semantics.

Open.

Action: [GA] and [GF] Investigate mechanism for cascading
semantics and whether to support cascading on either or both
logical and presentation flowed vocabularies.

Open.

Action: [GA] Investigate writing system relative use of
origin style parameter.

Done. See above resolution to adopt SVG/SMIL semantics.

************************************************************************
2. Review Open Issues
************************************************************************

Issue: Whether to use XLink vocabulary, e.g., as used consistently by
SVG, or use "src" attribute as apparently will be done in XHTML2?

Open.

Issue: Whether to use IRIs instead of URIs? Note: XPointer and
Namespaces in 1.1 use IRIs?

Ongoing investigation by [GF].

Issue: Should we use "class" instead of "role"?

Open.

Issue: If we need hierarchical definition of regions, e.g., due to
nested regions, then we should express this hierarchy separately from
flows hierarchy and reference regions from flows. Otherwise, if we have
a flat region model, i.e., regions all defined relative to origin of
display medium, then it would suffice to incorporate region definition
as style properties on each flow. We need to determine which of these
to support?

Closed. See above resolution.

Issue: Probably want to permit in logical content mode the selection of
content based on generic XML features of non-TT namespace descriptive
markup, e.g., for applying style and timing semantics, in which case an
appropriate TT container element shall be implied based on nearest
ancestor TT namespace element.

Open.

Issue: Need to think about cascading semantics; how to express, how to
apply, etc. Possibly use CSS semantics here as well.

Open.

Issue: for origin property, it appears to be somewhat unnatural to have
to express in terms of absolute left, right, top, bottom such that this
is portable for different writing modes; the intuitive definition is
that origin(10px,10px) is 10px down and right from container in LR-TB
writing modes, but that this is 10px down and left from container's top
right vertex in RL-TB writing modes, etc.  In other words, is the
vertex for the reference point of the containing area and the vertex
for the reference point of the contained area always the TOP,LEFT
vertex or does this depend on the writing mode, e.g., TOP,RIGHT for
RL-TB and TOP,RIGHT for TB-RL?

Closed. See above resolution.

************************************************************************
3. Planning Minimum Profile(s)
************************************************************************

[GF] Sent modified TT-AF-1-0-REQ document will crossed out items for
what shouldn't be in basic:

Not Basic

R205 - extrinsic text
R207 - conditional content
R213 - non-flowed text
R214 - non-flowed text vocabulary
R215 - leave in basic (real time captioning)
R217 - embedded graphics
R218 - non-embedded graphics

[GA] Asks about how to handle icons, etc., not in Unicode.

[EH] Sees this as advanced feature.

[GA] May be able to use embedded font with PUA unicode codes.

Action: [GA] Investigate if XML places restriction on use of PUAs in
Numeric Character References.

R222 - embedded audio
R223 - nonembedded audio
R305 - aural style parameters
R405 - exclusive (excl) item
R503 - fade transition
R504 - aural style property animation

[GA] Should we remove all external referencing features from basic
profile? e.g., external style and time sheets, external fonts, etc.
This would yield a single-file approach.

[SH] Not sure agrees with approach of basic. Would rather see profiles
based on use case scenarios. If this is intended to be authoring format,
then we're throwing out too much.

[EH] Favors approach of extremely simple authorability, e.g., using
note pad. Thinks that external references will complicate for easy
human authoring.

[GF] Agrees with [EH]. Wants to review with [BB].

[SH] Doesn't disagree that we need simple profiles; but thinks there
may be multiple simple/basic profiles. Having a basic scenario such
as captioning is not the only basic profile. It is a profile that is
simplified in particular direction.

[GA] Suggests restricting name of profile to specific use case area.

[GF] Let's call this "Captioning and Subtitle Authoring Profile" instead
of "basic" profile.

[EH] Problem with AF in toto is size of spec. Would like small spec.
If we can write AF spec, then aspects not generally considered basic and
is truly advanced, should be segregated.

************************************************************************
4. Continuation of F2F Agenda
************************************************************************

[GA] Need to set deadline for submissions on TT-AF-1-0. Working deadline
of 15 December for submissions:

Content		- GA
Timing		- EH
Animation	- SH
Visual Style	- GF
Aural Style	- SH
Metadata	- TM

Action: [GA] Remind members of deadline and assignments. Solicit [DK]
and [DS] to take ownership of some parts of spec.

************************************************************************
Next Meeting
************************************************************************

11/06/03 - No Telecon
11/13/03 - Telecon

[SH] What is status on location for next F2F?

Action: [GA] To query [MG] on meeting for F2F for planning purposes.

************************************************************************
ADJOURNS at 1300h Eastern Time (US)
************************************************************************

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
START SUMMARY
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

*** RESOLUTIONS ***

Resolution: Adopt SVG/SMIL semantics for origin, x, and y
properties as coordinates in 4th quadrant. N.B. may place burden
on specifying positions for RL-TB and TB-RL writing modes.

Resolution: Need hierarchical region definitions in TT-AF-1-0
but not as basic feature.

*** OPEN ACTION ITEMS ***

Action: [MG] To send notice to Daisy requesting final comments on
TT-AF-1-0-REQ by Nov 1.

Action: [SH] Will investigate use of media queries in this context and
report back.

Action: [DS with help of Paul Nelson and Peter Lofting] Write RFC to
register appropriate opentype/truetype font types as MIME media types,
suggest model of "application/font-<font-type-name>", e.g.,
"application/font-truetype".

Action: [GA] Make proposal regarding use of Xlink vocabulary or
"src" attribute.

Action: [GF] Investigate whether to use IRIs instead of URIs?
Note: XPointer and Namespaces in 1.1 use IRIs?

Action: [SH] Investigate use of "role" vs "class" attribute.

Action: [GA] Send out pointer to TEI definition of "role".

Action: [GA] Investigate selection of non-TT vocabulary for
application of style/timing semantics.

Action: [GA] and [GF] Investigate mechanism for cascading
semantics and whether to support cascading on either or both
logical and presentation flowed vocabularies.

Action: [GA] Investigate if XML places restriction on use of PUAs in
Numeric Character References.

Action: [GA] Remind members of deadline and assignments. Solicit [DK]
and [DS] to take ownership of some parts of spec.

Action: [GA] To query [MG] on meeting for F2F for planning purposes.

*** OPEN ISSUES ***

Issue: Whether to use XLink vocabulary, e.g., as used consistently by
SVG, or use "src" attribute as apparently will be done in XHTML2?

Issue: Whether to use IRIs instead of URIs? Note: XPointer and
Namespaces in 1.1 use IRIs?

Issue: Should we use "class" instead of "role"?

Issue: Probably want to permit in logical content mode the selection of
content based on generic XML features of non-TT namespace descriptive
markup, e.g., for applying style and timing semantics, in which case an
appropriate TT container element shall be implied based on nearest
ancestor TT namespace element.

Issue: Need to think about cascading semantics; how to express, how to
apply, etc. Possibly use CSS semantics here as well.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
END SUMMARY
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Thierry MICHEL
W3C/ERCIM
Received on Friday, 9 January 2004 12:11:58 UTC

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