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Minutes of TT WG Teleconference on 03/18/04

From: Thierry MICHEL <tmichel@w3.org>
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:44:03 +0200
To: <public-tt@w3.org>
Message-ID: <000101c42b94$9aacb320$ad02010a@wistiti>

Minutes of TT WG Teleconference on 03/18/04


  Glenn Adams (XFSI, Chair, Scribe) [GA]
  Sean Hayes, Microsoft (SH)
  David Kirby (BBC) [DK]


  Mike Dolan (invited expert) [MD]
  Geoff Freed (WGBH/NCAM, scribe) [GF]
  Erik Hodge (RealNetworks) [EH]


  Thierry Michel (W3C) [TM]
  Dave Singer (Apple) [DS]

Draft Agenda

[GA] Apologies for not having opportunity to post draft agenda, due
to current travel.

1. F2F Planning (Amsterdam)

[GA] Recommends obtaining reservations quickly due to flower season.

[DK] CWI may have difficult public transport due to intermittent bus.

2. Review Descriptive Vocabulary [DK]

[DK] Reviews descriptive vocabulary items, with notes and examples

Action ------

The text describes the action that is taking place. It is not uttered.


<p id="p1" agent="paul"> <span role="action">Pointing to nearby
rocks</span> Erratic boulders like this were found all over northern
Europe and America.  </p>

Caption -------

The text appears as a part of the video content; it is "open" or
"burnt-in" text that forms part of the picture content and as such
its display cannot be switched off by the user. 

Examples: i) a place or time to set the action for the viewer, e.g.
London, 1902

<span role="caption">London, 1902</span>

ii) a subtitle to translate brief foreign language speech, e.g. a
programme produced in English may have Japanese contributions within
it, each with English language subtitles added into the picture. 

<span role="caption">... </span> <!-- needs suitable caption text
adding here -->

Kinesic -------

Do we need this in timed text?

From TEI P4 CH11: any communicative phenomenon, not necessarily
vocalized, for example a gesture, frown, etc.

Music ----- The text describes the music content. Possible details
include composer, album title, track title, performer and recording
reference number, e.g. CD number. [Should we allow this to be
free-format text or provide markup for details such as composer?]


<span role="music" dur="2.48">Mozart: The Magic Flute</span>

Pause -----

A pause between any elements of text. Where this is associated with
an utterance, it is also attributed to the speaker of that utterance.
The duration of the pause can be specified using either the
additional attribute dur= with a time in seconds or descriptively
with the attribute length= taking one of the values short, medium or

Example: <p id="p1" agent="angela"> What do you think of that!  </p>
<pause dur="3.5"/> <p id="p2" agent="laura"> It's...<pause
length="medium"> unbelievable.  </p>

Phrase ------ Do we need this as it seems to be a subdivision of

Shift -----

Do we need this? We already have R305 - Style Parameters - Aural
(which includes, for example, pitch)

To quote TEI P4 CH11:

<shift> marks the point at which some paralinguistic feature of a
series of utterances by any one speaker changes.

The who attribute supplies an identifier for the speaker or group of
speakers whose shift in some feature is being noted. Its value is the
identifier of a <participant> or <participant.grp> element in the TEI

feature (feature) a paralinguistic feature.

new (new state) specifies the new state of the paralinguistic feature

Many paralinguistic features (pitch, prominence, loudness, etc.)
characterize stretches of speech which are not co-extensive with
utterances or any of the other units discussed so far. One simple
method of encoding such units is simply to mark their boundaries. An
empty element called <shift> is provided for this purpose.

* <shift> marks the point at which some paralinguistic
  feature of a series of utterances by any one speaker changes.
  feature (feature) a paralinguistic feature.  new (new state)
  specifies the new state of the paralinguistic feature specified.

A <shift> element may appear within an utterance or a segment to mark
a significant change in the particular feature defined by its
attributes, which is then understood to apply to all subsequent
utterances for the same speaker, unless changed by a new shift for
the same feature in the same speaker. Intervening utterances by other
speakers do not normally carry the same feature. For example:

<u who="lb"><shift feature="loud" new="f"/>Elizabeth</u> <u
who="eb">Yes</u> <u who="lb"><shift feature="loud" new="normal"/>Come
and try this <pause/> <shift feature="loud" new="ff"/>come on</u>

Song ----

The text is the lyrics of a song.

Sound -----

A non-verbal utterance, for example, breaking glass, door slam,

Example: <p id="p1" agent="john"> Look over there!  </p> <span
role="sound">Car brakes squeal</span> <p id="p2" agent="emma"> Quick!
Let's go!  </p>

Thought -------

An utterance that is presented, not as direct speech from the
speaker, but as the thoughts of that speaker. Presentation may be as
text, e.g. a "thought-bubble" or as a voice-over. 

Title -----

The text is the title of the programme or work.

ADD: this is a sub-category of caption?  similarly, "directed by",

Problem: this could escalate and we will end up trying to mark up all
the parts of a title sequence and end credits.

Translation -----------

The text is the translation of the associated text content. This is
intended as a means of providing a translation of particular words to
aid reuse rather than a translation of the complete text. [See also
"meaning" below]

Example needed here.

Meaning ------- ?? Should this be an attribute?

For translation purposes, it is frequently required to have a further
explanation of the meaning of slang or similar words, e.g. "Thanks a
bunch". The meaning attribute provides a way to add descriptive text
for this purpose.

Example: <p id="p1" agent="barry"> <span meaning="Used as a term \"Be
careful\"">Watch</span> your step!  </p>

Utterance ---------

A contiguous stretch of speech associated with one speaker. An
utterance always ends on a change of speaker but may also end where
there is a significant pause in the speech.

[Should we make utterance a subdivision of paragraph, otherwise they
seem to have the same meaning?]

Example (but the same as paragraph):

<utterance id="p1" agent="narrator"> An extraordinary battle against
nature began.  </uterance>

Vocalization (non-lexical) -------------------------- ?? - what was
this going to cover? 

Writing -------

The text is not spoken but revealed as written content, shown to the
viewewr in the picture. 

Example: silently revealing text to a contestant in a game-show.

3. Action Items

[GA] Asks all to review action items, so we can conduct full review at
next telecon.

3. Next Meetings

Normal weekly telecon schedule (Noon Eastern Time)

May 10-12 F2F Amsterdam (CWI); start 10:30AM on 10th, end 1800h on 12th
Jun 22-24 F2F Mt View, CA (Microsoft)




Action: [SH] Will investigate use of media queries in this context and
report back.

Action: [DS with help of Paul Nelson and Peter Lofting] Write RFC to
register appropriate opentype/truetype font types as MIME media types,
suggest model of "application/font-<font-type-name>", e.g.,

Action: [GA] Make proposal regarding use of Xlink vocabulary or
"src" attribute.

Action: [GF] Investigate whether to use IRIs instead of URIs?
Note: XPointer and Namespaces in 1.1 use IRIs?

Action: [SH] Investigate use of "role" vs "class" attribute.

Action: [GF] Investigate mechanism for cascading
semantics and whether to support cascading on either or both
logical and presentation flowed vocabularies.

Action: [GA] Draft new requirement on "Integrability"
in general terms that should not impact testing or implementation

Action: [GA] incorporate agreed changes into TT-AF-1-0-REQ in
preparation for publishing final W3C Note.

Action: [SH] will review and propose subset of aural parameters
(see R305).

Action: [GA] Add figure showing logical structure anticipated
by requirements.

Action: [GA] Add note to R217 and R219 that shows use of data: URI

Action: [TM] Find out if xpointer() scheme WD [1] is still being
progressed forward.

[1] http://www.w3.org/TR/xptr-xpointer/#document-order-notation

Action: [SH] to propose subset with extensions for use in CS

Action: [GA]/[GF] investigate syntax for regions vis-a-vis style.

Action: [DK] To write up short paragraph on uses of
role tokens. Suggest removing or adding as he

Action: [TM] to propose and define standard MD attributes.

Action: [*] Think about standard MD items (and write something
down and send to list so we can think about it too).

Action: [GA] Need to start planning for June meeting in Japan!

Action: [GA] Post edited draft minutes for previous F2F (02/04)
for review.

Action: [TM] consult with W3C Legal to determine whether requirements
exist to explicitly obtain disclosure from past and current public
comments that have resulted in requirements, etc., specifically,
requirement R307. Note that this question is in regard to current
TTWG status under CPP.

Action: [TM] review test suites developed by RDF WG, which focused on
authorial intent, to see if some concepts and methodology can be
reused in TTWG context.

Action: [TM] Will research CR exit criteria and make proposal.

Action: [SH] to draft standard ready text for subset of xquery.

Action: [GA] post example file to member reflector.

Action: [DS] Based on email of 01/14, integrate with fillBehavior as
described in example.

Action: [SH] make proposal regarding keeping or removing float style


Issue: Whether to use XLink vocabulary, e.g., as used consistently by
SVG, or use "src" attribute as apparently will be done in XHTML2?

Issue: Whether to use IRIs instead of URIs? Note: XPointer and
Namespaces in 1.1 use IRIs?

Issue: Should we use "class" instead of "role"?

Issue: Probably want to permit in logical content mode the selection of
content based on generic XML features of non-TT namespace descriptive
markup, e.g., for applying style and timing semantics, in which case an
appropriate TT container element shall be implied based on nearest
ancestor TT namespace element.

Issue: Need to think about cascading semantics; how to express, how to
apply, etc. Possibly use CSS semantics here as well.

Issue (2004-03-05): Whether to allow block as immediate child of
inline? N.B. XSL-FO does allow this. [GA] showed example of renmoji
(horizontal block in vertical Japanese lines).


Thierry MICHEL
Received on Monday, 26 April 2004 09:46:57 UTC

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