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RE : RE : [Moderator Action] Bugs and TT (was TT and subtitling)

From: Thierry MICHEL <tmichel@w3.org>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 10:49:54 +0100
To: "'TimedText'" <public-tt@w3.org>
Cc: "'Joe Clark'" <joeclark@joeclark.org>
Message-ID: <000101c2ce8e$45ef6530$0200a8c0@wistiti>


Posted on 'public-tt@w3.org'

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : public-tt-request@w3.org 
> [mailto:public-tt-request@w3.org] De la part de Thierry MICHEL
> Envoyé : jeudi 6 février 2003 00:05
> À : 'TimedText'
> Cc : 'Joe Clark'
> Objet : RE : [Moderator Action] Bugs and TT (was TT and subtitling)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Message d'origine-----
> > De : Joe Clark [mailto:joeclark@joeclark.org]
> > Envoyé : mercredi 5 février 2003 18:13
> > À : TimedText
> > Objet : [Moderator Action] Bugs and TT (was TT and subtitling)
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Yes, I'm on this list too. Happy new year!
> > 
> > >It is one of my company's current aims to add the ability 
> for bitmaps 
> > >to be propogated through the chain from authoring to display, for 
> > >channel identification, logos etc. Whilst these usages may 
> not fall 
> > >into the TT charter, the ability of TT to carry bitmap data would 
> > >IMHO considerably enhance its utility in the contexts in 
> which it is 
> > >likely to be used.
> > 
> > There's a huge trend in Canada toward animated 
> channel-identification
> > logos ("bugs" 
> > <http://www.eddietalbot.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/squashthebugs/>). I've 
> > seen Flash animations less sophisticated than some of these, like 
> > Showcase's. They're inserted by rack-mounted equipment not very 
> > different from Line 21 encoders. (It's been the better part 
> of a year 
> > since I toured Showcase's plant.)
> > 
> > In any event, they're certainly *text* or at least *writing*, and
> > they are timed in two respects:
> > 
> > * They appear and disappear at certain times (whether static or
> > animated). In particular, they disappear during commercial breaks.
> > 
> > * Animation where applicable.
> > 
> > Position also comes into play. Generally speaking, broadcasters here
> > are too brain-dead to displace bugs to get out of the way of 
> > subtitles (sic-- foreign-language subtitles). But on occasion, I've 
> > seen bugs move over the course of an evening's viewing from bottom 
> > right to top left, for example, where the unit of time expressed is 
> > the *program* (first ten shows bottom right, overnight subtitled 
> > movie top left).
> > 
> > Broadening the discussion, what are generically known here as
> > disclaimers (as in reference to program content, but also, oddly 
> > enough, in announcing that a program has audio description) are 
> > essentially very large bugs that appear and disappear. They're also 
> > text.
> > 
> > >  Unicode does not cover every conceivable character
> > 
> > I would debate whether bugs and disclaimers are even "characters";
> > human beings have always created individual drawings where the 
> > existing writing system is not sufficient.
> > 
> > >Some of these may not be efficiently carried by SVG.
> > 
> > And let's not get too hung up on accommodating W3C technologies and
> > nothing but. Let us not recapitulate the errors of the Web Content 
> > Accessibility Guidelines 1.0.
> > 
> > >         Personally I feel that in most cases the cause is 
> lost for 
> > >existing **emission systems** (e.g. TV, DAB, DVD) adopting TT.
> > 
> > Not at the authoring level and at a level midway between authoring
> > and emission.
> > 
> > Case in point: I know one broadcaster that has the idea (not a very
> > solid one, in my view) of converting all subtitling and even closed 
> > captioning to Microsoft Word files (!) that are simply 
> pushed through 
> > at airtime, rather comparable to live-display captioning.
> > 
> > At the authoring level, we're dealing with timed text all the time.
> > What else do captioners and subtitlers deal with?
> > 
> > >         Certainly if TT were to be adopted for subtitling for our 
> > >purposes it would need a parallel or extension mechanism to carry 
> > >timed graphic data.
> > 
> > Or simply *refer* to it and call it up (and dismiss it, etc.) at
> > predetermined times.
> > 
> > >Current multimedia standards (eg SMIL) are generally not 
> appropriate 
> > >for subtitling.
> > 
> > That's a tad broad.
> > --
> > 
> >      Joe Clark | joeclark@joeclark.org
> >      Author, _Building Accessible Websites_
> >      <http://joeclark.org/book/> | <http://joeclark.org/bookblog/>
> >      <http://joeclark.org/access/>
> > 
> 
Received on Friday, 7 February 2003 04:50:18 GMT

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