W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-tt@w3.org > February 2003

Re: TT and subtitling

From: geoff freed <geoff_freed@wgbh.org>
Date: 04 Feb 2003 08:45:18 -0500
Message-ID: <-1167774180geoff_freed@wgbh.org>
To: <public-tt@w3.org>, <Johnb@screen.subtitling.com>, <public-tt-request@w3.org>
CC: <public-tt@w3.org>


>Captioning is NOT always in the language of the program audio - for example
>in the UK it is perfectly feasible on DTT (digital terrestrial TV) to have
>English subtitles AND English captions (as separate user selections) for a
>Welsh language (audio) program. To adopt the above definition would mean
>that any 'foreign language' program that is **not** dubbed could only be
>termed 'subtitled' - regardless of the inclusion of audio events and
>narration (which are indicative of captioning cf subtitling).

Talk about head-spinning...

It is becoming apparent that we should consider a broader definition of subtitle vs
 caption.  That is, not differentiating subtitles from captions based on language, but
 based on content:

-- captions contain additional information (sound effect cues, identifiers)
-- subtitles contain no additional information

In other words, the language of the original soundtrack *could* 
become irrelevant. 

Arguments?

Geoff/NCAM
 

On Tuesday, February 4, 2003, Johnb@screen.subtitling.com wrote:
>
>Geoff Freed wrote:
>
>	> SMPTE's definitions leave room for ambiguity.  Captions are always
>in the
>	> same language as the program audio, for example, and they aren't
>limited to just
>	> motion  pictures.  I propose the following definition for
>captions:
>
>	> "Textual representation of dialog, narration and other audio
>events, in the same
>	> language as the original presentation."
>
>Captioning is NOT always in the language of the program audio - for example
>in the UK it is perfectly feasible on DTT (digital terrestrial TV) to have
>English subtitles AND English captions (as separate user selections) for a
>Welsh language (audio) program. To adopt the above definition would mean
>that any 'foreign language' program that is **not** dubbed could only be
>termed 'subtitled' - regardless of the inclusion of audio events and
>narration (which are indicative of captioning cf subtitling).
>
>I agree that the scope of the definition could be widened in the TT standard
>to include all video and audio material (not just motion
>pictures).
>
>regards
>
>John Birch.
>
>The views and opinions expressed are the author's own and do not necessarily
>reflect the views and opinions of the Screen Subtitling Systems
>Limited.
>
Received on Tuesday, 4 February 2003 08:45:50 GMT

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