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RE: TT and subtitling/captioning - separating timing from style f rom content

From: <Johnb@screen.subtitling.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 15:58:20 +0100
Message-ID: <11E58A66B922D511AFB600A0244A722E9EE574@NTMAIL>
To: glenn@xfsi.com
Cc: public-tt@w3.org
Glenn,
 
I'm not as familiar with what can be achieved wrt line break using just
style... 
 
To give you an idea of what is required in subtitling / captioning take a
look at 
http://accurapid.com/journal/22subtitles.htm
<http://accurapid.com/journal/22subtitles.htm> 
Section BM__Toc122799347.1. Line-breaks
 
I also include below a section (Section 4.10) cut from the Australian
Caption Centre's guidelines...
This is a draft document (acc_ap_b.doc)
 
There is a link to the full document on this page
http://www.joeclark.org/auscapcolours.html
<http://www.joeclark.org/auscapcolours.html> 
 
 
Don't take either of these as gospel though.....
I merely include them as illustrations of what various organisations think
is a **good** standard for captioning / subtitling.
 
If a CSS/XXX style model can 'easily' support the line breaking concepts
outlined by these documents, 
ideally without requiring explicit line breaks within the content - then
great.
 
I guess I might still want soft hyphens tho' :-)
 
regards 
John Birch 

The views and opinions expressed are the author's own and do not necessarily

reflect the views and opinions of Screen Subtitling Systems Limited. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Glenn A. Adams [mailto:glenn@xfsi.com]
Sent: 11 August 2003 14:22
To: Johnb@screen.subtitling.com
Cc: public-tt@w3.org
Subject: RE: TT and subtitling/captioning - separating timing from style
from content


My experience is that relying upon whitespace in marked up content is
problematic for a variety of reasons. It is much better to use
xml:space=preserve and then subsequently perform whitespace normalization
during formatting in combination with explicit markup or style properties to
indicate forced line breaks.
 
The WG recently added "force line break" to the requirements for content
vocabulary as well as adding break-after and break-before style properties
that take a "line" value. The WG sees these as the prefered ways to indicate
line break semantics.
 
G.



  _____  

From: Johnb@screen.subtitling.com [mailto:Johnb@screen.subtitling.com] 
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 5:56 AM
To: Glenn A. Adams
Cc: public-tt@w3.org


[JB> ]  Yes - you're right - I did forget the newlines. I think for
subtitling/captioning you'd want a fairly verbatim transcription of the
content of the <p> element into the displayed region. So I'd expect:
 

  <span id="w1">Scooby</span> <span id="w2">dooby</span> <span
id="w3">doo</span>, <span id="w4">where</span> <span id="w5">are</span>
<span id="w6">you</span>?

To produce the output  
Scooby dooby doo, where are you?

and 
  <span id="w1">Scooby</span> <span id="w2">dooby</span> <span
id="w3">doo</span>, 

  <span id="w4">where</span> <span id="w5">are</span> <span
id="w6">you</span>?


To produce the output  
Scooby dooby doo,
where are you?



Which I assume it would :-) 





Received on Monday, 11 August 2003 10:48:12 GMT

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