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RE: TT and subtitling/captioning - separating timing from style f rom content

From: <Johnb@screen.subtitling.com>
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 11:15:45 +0100
Message-ID: <11E58A66B922D511AFB600A0244A722E9EE569@NTMAIL>
To: glenn@xfsi.com
Cc: public-tt@w3.org
Glenn,
 
Thanks for your reply - I perhaps did not make exactly clear what I intended
would be the effect of the last animation.
 

what would be the impact of: 

<par>
  <seq>
    <cue select="id(T27)" dur="3s" use="a1"/>
    <cue select="id(T28)" dur="3s" use="a2"/>
  </seq>
  <cue begin="1s" dur="2s" use="a3"/>
</par>

I.e. an attempt to modify the style partway through the sequence. 

What would the 3rd animation be limited to - just that inside the <par>?

GA:  There is no problem in principle to this (although you need to select
some content with the last cue). We can use the additive and accumulate
animation attributes to determine combinatorial effects and we can define
implicit additive semantics as well. See
http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/animate.html#AdditionAttributes
<http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/animate.html#AdditionAttributes>  as an example.

The last cue does not select content because I want the animation to affect
the content already selected by the previous two cues.
 
What I am thinking of is effects like Karaoke - where the style of displayed
text is modified (emphasis, colour change, underlines etc)
Karaoke might be achieved by replacing the content with new content over
successive intervals.....
 
e.g.
 
0006 : 10:00:18:19,10:00:19:03, Scooby dooby doo, where are you?
0007 : 10:00:19:03,10:00:19:16, Scooby dooby doo, where are you?
0008 : 10:00:19:16,10:00:20:03, Scooby dooby doo, where are you?
0009 : 10:00:20:03,10:00:20:17, Scooby dooby doo, where are you?
0010 : 10:00:20:17,10:00:21:00, Scooby dooby doo, where are you?
0011 : 10:00:21:00,10:00:21:21, Scooby dooby doo, where are you?

This is a bit repetitive..... and makes it somewhat awkward to edit - tho' I
guess a Karaoke aware editor could ameliorate the issue!

Incidentally at least one fan-subbing format (USF) includes a Karaoke
markup.

<PASTE EXAMPLE FROM USF SPEC>

- karaoke :

<karaoke style="MyStyleName"><k t="1000"/>song <k t="1000"/>text</karaoke>


The karaoke element is very similar to the text element. The main
differrence is that you can used the special tag <k t="duration_in_ms"/>.
So in the example below the text "song" has a duration of 400 ms, "cool "
has a duration of 300 ms...


<subtitle start="00:00:10.000" stop="00:00:11.000">
<karaoke><k t="100"/>a <k t="200"/>very <k t="300"/>cool <k
t="400"/>song</karaoke>
</subtitle>

The sum of all the duration must be equal to the subtitle duration. Here
100+200+300+400 = 1000 ms = 1s

<PASTE END>

 

===========================================

If temporal flow in TT-AF is possible - then it would be desirable to be
able to move a region using a style animation - without 'knowing' the
content of the region.

Consider: you have some text that you are flowing into a region under UA
temporal flow - but halfway through the display of the text (and you have
only specified an overall start and end point) - you need to move the
display region because it is obscuring some important part of the picture.

Eg. a Magic show - the subtitles are most of the time at the bottom of the
screen - magician is talking about something - but halfway through you want
to see his hands - so you need to move the subtitle region to the top of the
screen - then later it can go back down.

An example of how style and text are not intrinsically linked. (or is it
just that style should not include layout :-)

regards 
John Birch 

The views and opinions expressed are the author's own and do not necessarily

reflect the views and opinions of Screen Subtitling Systems Limited.
Received on Friday, 8 August 2003 06:05:17 GMT

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