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RE: action-334, issue-112, a summary on sub-domains for exceptions

From: Mike O'Neill <michael.oneill@baycloud.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 16:41:42 -0000
To: "'Shane Wiley'" <wileys@yahoo-inc.com>, "'Joseph Lorenzo Hall'" <joe@cdt.org>
Cc: <public-tracking@w3.org>, "'Nicholas Doty'" <npdoty@w3.org>
Message-ID: <017201cdcf19$9f096ee0$dd1c4ca0$@baycloud.com>
Shane,

If we allow *s in the suffix someone could make the call  for yahoo.badguy.com with yahoo.* .You could only allow it in TLDs (.fr, .com, co.uk, .co etc.) but some of them have more than one component so you would need a lookup table to isolate them. Even if you just matched  for subdomains you would have to have another parameter in the UGE API function to specify the range of origins, and the domain matching implementation by user-agents might be more complex. I think it would be a lot easier to use the same-party list which can be as long as you need.
Anyway wildcard or regex matching would not be able to handle same parties with different domains which is common in Europe (because of different languages).

But I agree let's get it in text then we can have a poll.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Shane Wiley [mailto:wileys@yahoo-inc.com] 
Sent: 30 November 2012 14:16
To: Joseph Lorenzo Hall
Cc: public-tracking@w3.org; Mike O'Neill; Nicholas Doty
Subject: RE: action-334, issue-112, a summary on sub-domains for exceptions

Joe,

As the root domain is consistent, I don't see how a 3rd party could "sneak" in via a wildcard here.

- Shane

-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Lorenzo Hall [mailto:joe@cdt.org]
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 5:17 AM
To: Shane Wiley
Cc: public-tracking@w3.org; Mike O'Neill; Nicholas Doty
Subject: Re: action-334, issue-112, a summary on sub-domains for exceptions

Shane, it sounds like maintaining such a list without wildcards, from your perspective, would be difficult and potentially error-prone? Is there a way to reach unaffiliated third parties that might "sneak" in via a wildcard? best, Joe

On Wed Nov 28 18:16:40 2012, Shane Wiley wrote:
> Mike,
>
> Our list is longer than you assume – and I believe others will run 
> into as well.  Suggest we place both options in the TPE draft and go 
> from there on the normal consensus process to have others weigh in.
>
> - Shane
>
> *From:*Mike O'Neill [mailto:michael.oneill@baycloud.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 28, 2012 3:14 PM
> *To:* Shane Wiley; Nicholas Doty
> *Cc:* public-tracking@w3.org
> *Subject:* RE: action-334, issue-112, a summary on sub-domains for 
> exceptions
>
> Hi Shane,
>
> I don’t think the server side work is too onerous. If we represented 
> the TrackingResource in webIDL:
>
> interface *TrackingResourceDescriptor* {
>
>     attribute sequence<DOMString>? same-party 
> <#widl-TrackingResourceDescriptor-same-pa>;
>
>     attribute sequence<DOMString>? third-party 
> <#widl-TrackingResourceDescriptor-third-p>;
>
>     attribute sequence<DOMString>? audit 
> <#widl-TrackingResourceDescriptor-audit>;
>
>     attribute DOMString? policy
> <#widl-TrackingResourceDescriptor-policy>;
>
>     attribute DOMString? control
> <#widl-TrackingResourceDescriptor-control>;
>
> };
>
> Even if we did not have a tracking resource, or we did not want to 
> mess with the one we had, it could be done client-side (say on
> yahoo.com) with script like this:
>
> <script type="text/JavaScript">
>
> var tdr = new *TrackingResourceDescriptor();*
>
> *tdr.same-party =
> [“yahoo.co.uk”,”yahoo-inc.com”,”completely.different.domain.com”,...];
> *
>
> *setUGE( [“tp1.com”,”tp2.net”], tdr);*
>
> </script>
>
> i.e. the UGE gets set for yahoo.com, yahoo.co.uk, yahoo-inc.com etc.
> by setting up the other domain names in a same-party array then 
> passing it in using a new optional parameter to the API.
>
> Mike
>
> *From:*Shane Wiley [mailto:wileys@yahoo-inc.com]
> *Sent:* 28 November 2012 22:20
> *To:* Mike O'Neill
> *Cc:* public-tracking@w3.org <mailto:public-tracking@w3.org>; Nicholas 
> Doty
> *Subject:* RE: action-334, issue-112, a summary on sub-domains for 
> exceptions
>
> Mike,
>
> I believe going this route still requires an over abundance of work on 
> the Server side - all in the attempt to stop bad actors who would not 
> likely submit a traceable exception for domains they don’t own 
> (already a violation of the draft standard to do this as they are not 
> “affiliated”).  So would again ask for making this easier for those 
> that want to implement the standard and not create arbitrary walls or 
> huddles in the failed attempt to thwart bad actors.
>
> - Shane
>
> *From:*Mike O'Neill [mailto:michael.oneill@baycloud.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 28, 2012 2:13 PM
> *To:* Shane Wiley
> *Cc:* public-tracking@w3.org <mailto:public-tracking@w3.org>; Nicholas 
> Doty
> *Subject:* RE: action-334, issue-112, a summary on sub-domains for 
> exceptions
>
> Hi Shane,
>
> Allowing wildcards in the TLD suffix is not a good idea. There are 
> many domains where sites run by completely different entities only 
> differ by the TLD. Only subdomains can be guaranteed to be operated by 
> entities who are the main domain owner,  or have a contractual 
> relationship with them.
>
> A list of domains in the tracking resource, like same-party (or 
> another name if we don’t want to overload the meaning),  could handle 
> this use case, and could apply to any domain (like yahoo-inc.com). It 
> could also work for web-wide exceptions.
>
> If we wanted to handle cases where there was no tracking resource URI, 
> or where the same-party list needed to be dynamically calculated, we 
> could have a new optional parameter to the API that references an 
> object with  attributes mirroring the relevant elements in the 
> tracking resource.
>
> Mike
>

--
Joseph Lorenzo Hall
Senior Staff Technologist
Center for Democracy & Technology
1634 I ST NW STE 1100
Washington DC 20006-4011
(p) 202-407-8825
(f) 202-637-0968
joe@cdt.org
Received on Friday, 30 November 2012 16:45:17 UTC

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