Re: ISSUE-28: MRC presentation

Jeff, I'm a bit confused.

I agree that we have experts in this group. But then why do we need outside
experts to evaluate MRC, but don't need them to evaluate the impact of DNT?

From:  Jeffrey Chester <jeff@democraticmedia.org>
Date:  Friday, November 2, 2012 10:37 AM
To:  Alan Chapell <achapell@chapellassociates.com>
Cc:  "Dobbs, Brooks" <Brooks.Dobbs@kbmg.com>, Rigo Wenning <rigo@w3.org>,
"public-tracking@w3.org" <public-tracking@w3.org>, Chris Mejia
<chris.mejia@iab.net>, Ed Felten <ed@felten.com>
Subject:  Re: ISSUE-28: MRC presentation

> I don't support that, Alan.  We have experts in the group.  But if we are
> going to suddenly invite the MRC to present, we need balance.
> 
> 
> 
> Jeffrey Chester
> Center for Digital Democracy
> 1621 Connecticut Ave, NW, Suite 550
> Washington, DC 20009
> www.democraticmedia.org <http://www.democraticmedia.org>
> www.digitalads.org <http://www.digitalads.org>
> 202-986-2220
> 
> On Nov 2, 2012, at 10:32 AM, Alan Chapell wrote:
> 
>> Hi Jeff - 
>> 
>> An interesting point. I've been thinking about an analogous situation. It is
>> becoming increasingly apparent to me that there will significant consequences
>> to this group's final output. And at least to my knowledge, there has been
>> little if any analysis on the impact the DNT spec will have on the myriad of
>> stakeholders. It seems like inviting a group of experts to analyze the impact
>> of DNT would be useful in ensuring that our work has the indented effect.
>> 
>> Would you support a proposal for such an analysis?
>> 
>> 
>> Alan
>> 
>> From:  Jeffrey Chester <jeff@democraticmedia.org>
>> Date:  Friday, November 2, 2012 9:32 AM
>> To:  "Dobbs, Brooks" <Brooks.Dobbs@kbmg.com>
>> Cc:  Rigo Wenning <rigo@w3.org>, "public-tracking@w3.org"
>> <public-tracking@w3.org>, Chris Mejia <chris.mejia@iab.net>, Ed Felten
>> <ed@felten.com>
>> Subject:  Re: ISSUE-28: MRC presentation
>> Resent-From:  <public-tracking@w3.org>
>> Resent-Date:  Fri, 02 Nov 2012 13:33:33 +0000
>> 
>>> I strongly believe we need a balanced discussion, and that MRC needs to be
>>> analyzed by independent expert observers in relation to what we are doing.
>>> If we going to invite MRC in to speak, I strongly urge us to invite a
>>> scholar not connected with industry.
>>> 
>>> Many thanks,
>>> 
>>> Jeff
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Jeffrey Chester
>>> Center for Digital Democracy
>>> 1621 Connecticut Ave, NW, Suite 550
>>> Washington, DC 20009
>>> www.democraticmedia.org <http://www.democraticmedia.org/>
>>> www.digitalads.org <http://www.digitalads.org/>
>>> 202-986-2220
>>> 
>>> On Nov 2, 2012, at 9:16 AM, Dobbs, Brooks wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Jeff,
>>>> 
>>>> I hear you on wishing to discuss all of this, and I don't want to suggest
>>>> that it shouldn't get proper consideration, but in the name in keeping
>>>> issues bite size can we at least start the MRC discussion focused to
>>>> "traditional" online measurement?
>>>> 
>>>> I'd like to start by just hearing from MRC what they need to validate
>>>> "normal" CPM impression counting. Once we get an understanding of this, we
>>>> could then go into the need for cross platform or viewable impression
>>>> measurements or other issues that build off the base.
>>>> 
>>>> Again, not trying to limit any discussion here, just trying to order the
>>>> line of inquiry a little to make sure we walk before we run.
>>>> 
>>>> -Brooks
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> 
>>>> Brooks Dobbs, CIPP | Chief Privacy Officer | KBM Group | Part of the
>>>> Wunderman Network
>>>> (Tel) 678 580 2683 | (Mob) 678 492 1662 | kbmg.com <http://kbmg.com/>
>>>> brooks.dobbs@kbmg.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> This email – including attachments – may contain confidential information.
>>>> If you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>  do not copy, distribute or act on it. Instead, notify the sender
>>>> immediately and delete the message.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 11/2/12 8:51 AM, "Jeffrey Chester" <jeff@democraticmedia.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I have discussed the need to place what MRC is doing in the context of
>>>>> its current work on cross-platform targeting measurement, including the
>>>>> ad/media industry's 3MS initiative.  We need to invite independent
>>>>> outside experts who can help us discuss MRC.
>>>>> 
>>>>> As you may know, MRC is coordinating the 3MS (Making Measurement Make
>>>>> Sense) initiative "created by the ANA, the 4As and the IAB to tackle the
>>>>> big issues surrounding cross-media measurement in a digital age.  Those
>>>>> steps include the shift from an ad impression served model to one of
>>>>> “viewable impressions” – a standard in which at least 50% of an ad is
>>>>> viewable to a consumer for at least one second, the transition to an
>>>>> “e-GRP” for cross-platform measurement." [cite via Mediapost]
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cross platform measurement tracking with analytics used to improve
>>>>> targeting in campaigns has a direct impact on our work, I believe.  I am
>>>>> happy to ask leading online ad scholars whether they wish to be on a call
>>>>> if we have a MRC discussion.
>>>>> 
>>>>> More info on 3MS here: http://www.iab.net/mmms;
>>>>> http://www.measurementnow.net/benefits.html
>>>>> 
>>>>> Jeff
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Jeffrey Chester
>>>>> Center for Digital Democracy
>>>>> 1621 Connecticut Ave, NW, Suite 550
>>>>> Washington, DC 20009
>>>>> www.democraticmedia.org <http://www.democraticmedia.org>
>>>>> www.digitalads.org <http://www.digitalads.org>
>>>>> 202-986-2220
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Nov 1, 2012, at 6:36 PM, Rigo Wenning wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Chris, 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> here is the reminder that you wanted to try to find someone in MRC
>>>>>> who could present to the Working Group.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I think the best would be to get a set of questions to him/her. A
>>>>>> presentation and Q&A session would be done during the TP WG call.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I encourage Ed and others to help with the questions. I remember the
>>>>>> following: 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 1/ How does opt-out work with MRC? Is data collection mandatory?
>>>>>> 2/ Is MRC collecting identified or identifiable data?
>>>>>> 3/ If 2/ is yes, are there plans to change that in the foreseeable
>>>>>> future?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Chris, feel free to suggest changes if you find the questions too
>>>>>> provocative (I find them exploratory as I don't know nothing about
>>>>>> MRC). 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I talked to the chairs and Aleecia also said it is a good idea. So
>>>>>> can you help us to make this happen?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Rigo
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Friday 26 October 2012 16:05:06 Chris Mejia wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Rigo,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> A quick note to let you know that I'm not ignoring this, just very
>>>>>>> busy with other business today (non-W3C-related), so I'll get
>>>>>>> back to you when my head is above water.  If you don't hear back
>>>>>>> from me before mid next week, please feel free to ping me again.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Chris Mejia | Digital Supply Chain Solutions | Ad Technology Group
>>>>>>> | Interactive Advertising Bureau - IAB | chris.mejia@iab.net |w
>>>>>>> 212-380-4711
>>>>>>> | c 347-949-8279 | Skype christopheramejia | AIM oskibearchris |
>>>>>>> | Twitter
>>>>>>> @oskibearchris | LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/chrismejia
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 10/26/12 5:13 AM, "Rigo Wenning" <rigo@w3.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> Chris,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> can you please indicate a person at MRC that we can invite for a
>>>>>>> presentation?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Rigo
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Thursday 25 October 2012 16:17:24 Chris Mejia wrote:
>>>>>>> Ed, respectfully, I had posted answer (before you asked your
>>>>>>> question)‹ I guess you must have missed it when conducting your
>>>>>>> research.  Let's follow-up offline and I'll be happy to point
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> to it.
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>