Re: Roll-up captions in WebVTT

Not just screen readers. Also Braille screens.

Christian

Christian Vogler, PhD
Director, Technology Access Program
Department of Communication Studies
SLCC 1116
Gallaudet University
http://tap.gallaudet.edu/
VP/Voice: 202-250-2795
On Dec 19, 2011 7:23 PM, "David Singer" <singer@apple.com> wrote:

>
> On Dec 19, 2011, at 16:21 , Christian Vogler wrote:
>
> I am concerned that repetion is also a way to make captions totally
> inaccessible to blind users. Even if you marked repetitions specially,
> screen readers would still have to support such markup explicitly.
>
>
> yes, that was my 'disadvantage' number 2…
>
> I need to chat with my screen reader colleagues to learn how they cope
> with text objects that move, today...
>
> Christian
>
> Christian Vogler, PhD
> Director, Technology Access Program
> Department of Communication Studies
> SLCC 1116
> Gallaudet University
> http://tap.gallaudet.edu/
> VP/Voice: 202-250-2795
> On Dec 19, 2011 7:11 PM, "David Singer" <singer@apple.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Dec 19, 2011, at 16:00 , Glenn Maynard wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 11:30 AM, David Singer <singer@apple.com> wrote:
>> > It's only evil if you can't tell it's a duplicate when you need to know
>> (e.g. when using TTS), and what I am suggesting is tagging to say that, for
>> those that need to know.
>>
>> It's evil and ugly regardless.  For credits, you would need hundreds or
>> even thousands of copies of each cue to scroll all the way up the screen.
>> I'm actually a bit taken aback that it's being put forward seriously.
>>
>>
>> I agree it doesn't work well for long credits.  I am also a bit taken
>> aback at having an idea dismissed as 'evil and ugly' before we've really
>> either worked it out or seen the alternatives. Can we debate the ideas
>> along with (or preferably without) the value adjectives?
>>
>> I understand it doesn't *look* clean to repeat a text line that occurs in
>> two different places in two consecutive cues, but it has a number of
>> advantages.
>>
>> The disadvantages:
>> * it doesn't 'feel right' to repeat things (but the bit-rate gain is
>> minimal, in my opinion)
>> * tagging is needed so that systems that need to know when it has
>> happened can tell (e.g. screen readers)
>>
>> The advantages:
>> * no cue-to-cue dependency -- no I frames and P frames (this is pretty
>> big, IMHO); each cue contains all its own text
>> * allows the expression of any transition, not just scrolling: moving to
>> stay with the speaker or out of the way, changes of color, background, etc.
>> * allows the use of CSS transitions to express the optionality and effect
>> of the transition
>>
>> (The last deals with some of Gal's complaint; a user could choose a
>> user-agent that doesn't do smooth transitions, if they don't like them; CSS
>> aspects are configurable in a natural way).
>>
>> I note that repetition for text that moves is likely to be used anyway
>> (it's the cheap way to do speaker-follow and jump-scroll) so getting the
>> markup to say when it has happened might be a win, anyway.
>>
>>
>>
>>  David Singer
>> Multimedia and Software Standards, Apple Inc.
>>
>>
> David Singer
> Multimedia and Software Standards, Apple Inc.
>
>