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Re: FW: SWEO-IG flyer comments

From: Paula-Lavinia Patranjan <paula.patranjan@ifi.lmu.de>
Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 11:09:56 +0200
Message-ID: <468A1264.7060503@ifi.lmu.de>
To: public-sweo-ig@w3.org
Cc: "Schiffel, Jeffrey A" <jeffrey.a.schiffel@boeing.com>, "Bassetti, Ann" <ann.bassetti@boeing.com>

Hi,

I think the comments Ann Bassetti sent us on the SW flyer are really 
valuable ones. Thanks for the comments! Thanks for forwarding them!

I propose to try to take these comments and suggestions into account in 
developing the next version of the flyer. To respond some of the 
comments, minimal changes to the flyer will do. However, they raise also 
a couple of conceptual (and at the same time structural) questions 
mainly concerning adapting/changing the 2nd and 3rd pages of the flyer. 
I'm happy to see that a couple of proposals already exist for refining 
these 2 pages...I'm confident that they'll lead us easily to an improved 
version of our flyer.

Best regards,
Paula

Schiffel, Jeffrey A wrote:
> All, 
>
> Attached is an email Ann Bassetti sent around to a few SWEO-ers in
> response to a note I sent her. It regards our flyer that is in
> development. Ann is Boeing's W3C representative (I'm Boeing's rep to the
> SWEO-IG, and occasionally let her know what we're doing).
>
> She has an useful set of comments, and they should be shared with
> everyone.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> Jeffrey Schiffel   (316) 393-0497  M/C K81-77
> The Boeing Company - IDS Wichita
> System of Systems Engineering
> --------------------------------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------------------------
>
>   
>> Jeff shared your draft flyer with me (mock_up-1.ppt).  I am taking the
>> liberty of sending back a few comments.  Since Ivan, Dan and Kingsley
>> are the other folks I specifically know on the list, I thought I'd
>> send my note to all of you, so can sling barbs at me not Jeff.
>>
>> I am looking at this flyer from the vantage of a non-geek.  I want
>> such a flyer to hand to my management, who don't tolerate geek talk,
>> and want to grasp the message in a few bullets. (And, the higher up
>> you go in the management chain, the fewer the bullets!)
>>
>> ===================================
>>
>> PAGE 1:  Looks very handsome, except for text formatting in "Data
>> unleashed" block is messed up. Plus, for me, I didn't realize there
>> was text underneath that box until I moved it.  (But Jeff said there
>> are still formatting issues, so you probably already know about this.)
>>
>> ===================================
>>
>> PAGE 2:  ("What Is the Semantic Web?")  
>>
>> A) aaargh, I don't think you actually define it.  I saw the title and
>> got my hopes up. You describe the problems, and say the SemWeb will
>> surmount them by doing this and that.  But you still don't say WHAT it
>> is.
>>
>> B) This whole page is way too long as the first definition.  I want
>> there to be a very simple statement underneath the title question.  I
>> do not want to read 5 paragraphs. (People will not do it!)
>>
>> I like these definitions, which I took from
>> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/:
>>
>> -------------------------
>> The Semantic Web provides a common framework that allows data to be
>> shared and reused across application, enterprise, and community
>> boundaries.  
>>   
>> ...
>>
>> The Semantic Web is a web of data. There is lots of data we all use
>> every day, and its not part of the web. I can see my bank statements
>> on the web, and my photographs, and I can see my appointments in a
>> calendar. But can I see my photos in a calendar to see what I was
>> doing when I took them? Can I see bank statement lines in a calendar?
>>
>> Why not? Because we don't have a web of data. Because data is
>> controlled by applications, and each application keeps it to itself.
>>
>> The Semantic Web is about two things. It is about common formats for
>> integration and combination of data drawn from diverse sources, where
>> on the original Web mainly concentrated on the interchange of
>> documents. It is also about language for recording how the data
>> relates to real world objects. That allows a person, or a machine, to
>> start off in one database, and then move through an unending set of
>> databases which are connected not by wires but by being about the same
>> thing.
>> -------------------------
>>
>> I would edit those paragraphs to be something like ...
>>
>> -------------------------
>> The Semantic Web provides a common framework that allows data to be
>> shared and reused across application, enterprise, and community
>> boundaries.  
>>   
>> The Semantic Web goal is to have a web of data. 
>>
>> We all use lots of data every day, and it's not part of the web. I can
>> see my bank statements, my photographs, my calendar appointments on
>> the web.  But those are just separate views of separate pieces of
>> data. I cannot combine them to see my photos in a calendar (to see
>> what I was doing when I took the pictures). I cannot see my bank
>> statement lines in a calendar.   <<Ann: it would be good if the 2nd
>> example did not also use a calendar>>
>>
>> Why not? Because we don't have a web of data. Data is currently
>> controlled by applications, and each application keeps it to itself.
>>
>> The Semantic Web is about establishing two things:
>>
>> 1. Common formats for integrating and combining data drawn from
>> diverse sources.  (Whereas the original Web mainly concentrated on the
>> interchange of documents.)
>>
>> 2. A language for recording how the data relates to real world
>> objects. <<Ann:  this is a little unclear to me>>
>>
>> In the Semantic Web, a person or a machine, can start off in one
>> database, and then move through an unending set of databases which are
>> connected not by wires but because they are about the same thing.  I
>> can start off looking at my bank statement. I can locate a restaurant
>> that I ate at on a map. I can jump to photographs I took while at that
>> restaurant. I can see who else (people I don't know!) took photos in
>> that same restaurant.  ... on and on ..
>>
>> Today I can look up my bank statement, the restaurant location, etc.,
>> but it requires me to go in and out of different applications each
>> time.  In the Semantic Web, I can just click and go from one concept
>> to another, so long as they have a common uniting point. 
>>
>> <<Ann:  I'm not at all sure this last sentence is true.  I'm just
>> trying to contrast how one does it today against what the SemWeb
>> brings to the picture....  There are undoubtedly other inaccuracies in
>> my edited version.  But I hope you get the gist of what I think works
>> for a novice. 
>>
>> Also, my edited version is too long.>>
>> -------------------------
>>
>>
>> ===================================
>>
>> PAGE 3: 
>>
>> A.) In the diagram, I suggest you should indicate somehow, which part
>> you are implying is the Semantic Web, or how this diagram relates to
>> SemWeb.
>>   
>> B.) The text in white box is way too geeky.
>>  
>> ------------------------------------
>> A Web of connected knowledge bases.  ...>> this is pretty good, but
>> not sure what 'knowledge bases' are?
>>
>> Contextualize the use of data by using ontologies.  ...>> this
>> sentence is totally inscrutable ... contextualize with ontologies?
>> yikes
>>
>> Retrieval of information through a unified query interface, ...>> is
>> there a simpler way to say "unified query interface"?
>>
>> ... regardless how and where data is stored.   ...>> yay, no gripes
>> about this one!
>>
>> Reasoning with data and offering different views over the data.  ...
>>     
>>>> pretty good
>>>>         
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> C.) I like the testimonials
>>
>> ===================================
>>
>> PAGE 4:
>>
>> A.) Nice diagram, and nice simple definitions!
>>
>> B.) This paragraph is generally OK, but there seems to be a missing
>> word or something:
>>
>> "Semantic Web applications are not require to use technologies from
>> all the presented layers. Since Semantic Web issues such as automated
>> trust establishment based on policies and credentials are investigated
>> at moment, the presented palette of Semantic Web technologies will be
>> extended in the future."
>>
>> s/credentials are investigated/credentials are being(?) investigated/
>>
>> ===================================
>>
>> You guys are all geek gods in my eyes, so I humbly make these
>> suggestions.  I hope they are helpful.  (It's OK with me if you share
>> them.)
>>
>> Best to each of you -- Ann
>>
>> Ann Bassetti
>> Web Integration Manager
>> Boeing Information Technology
>> Computing and Network Operations
>> telephone (desk):  +1.425.865.6603
>> mobile:  +1.206.218.8039
>> email:  ann.bassetti@boeing.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     
>
>
>   
Received on Tuesday, 3 July 2007 09:13:13 GMT

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