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meeting record: 2008-08-21 RDFa Task Force telecon

From: Ralph R. Swick <swick@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 15:29:10 -0400
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20080821152626.054cc848@127.0.0.1>
To: public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf@w3.org
Cc: public-swd-wg@w3.org

The record of today's RDF-in-XHTML Task Force telecon [1] is available
for review.

  [1] http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-minutes.html

Note one post-meeting answer added:

   the last day for publication requests before TPAC is 1600 UTC,
  Monday 13 October per [42]Ian Jacob's message of 2008-04-30

A text snapshot follows below.

----

                        RDF-in-XHTML Task Force

21 Aug 2008

   [2]Agenda

      [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Aug/0092.html

   See also: [3]IRC log, previous [4]2008-08-14

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-irc
      [4] http://www.w3.org/2008/08/14-rdfa-minutes.html

Attendees

   Present
          Ralph Swick, Manu Sporny, Steven Pemberton, Shane McCarron,
          Jeremy Carroll

   Regrets
          Ben Adida, Mark Birbeck, Michael Hausenblas

   Chair
          Manu

   Scribe
          Ralph

Contents

     * Topics
         1. Action Review
         2. SWD WG telecon
         3. Outreach
         4. Implementations and Tools
         5. Documentation on Wiki
     * Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________

   [closing issue-125; commenter's response is in
   [12]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008A
   ug/0094.html ]

     [12] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Aug/0094.html

Action Review

   ACTION: Ben and Manu to test implementations on step 9 (no child
   nodes with @property) [recorded in
   [13]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/14-rdfa-minutes.html#action23] [DONE]

     [13] http://www.w3.org/2008/08/14-rdfa-minutes.html#action23

   Manu: testing that plain literal empty string is generated when
   there are no child nodes
   ... Ben and Shane's implementation worked, mine was buggy

   ACTION: Manu write a pending test case for literal property and no
   child nodes [recorded in
   [14]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-minutes.html#action02]

   ACTION: Ralph prepare to summarize new W3C test suite license on 28
   Aug [recorded in
   [15]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-minutes.html#action03]

   ACTION: [PENDING] Michael to update Test Suite Manifest to correct
   tests 52 and 53 descriptions. [recorded in
   [16]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/14-rdfa-minutes.html#action02]

     [16] http://www.w3.org/2008/08/14-rdfa-minutes.html#action02

   ACTION: [DONE] Ralph to send note to Alan regarding ISSUE-122
   resolution [recorded in
   [17]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/14-rdfa-minutes.html#action24]

     [17] http://www.w3.org/2008/08/14-rdfa-minutes.html#action24

   -> [18]response to Alan

     [18] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Aug/0092.html

   ACTION: [DONE] Shane to respond to ISSUE-125 on mailing list
   [recorded in
   [19]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/14-rdfa-minutes.html#action25]

     [19] http://www.w3.org/2008/08/14-rdfa-minutes.html#action25

   -> [20]response

     [20] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Aug/0058.html

   ACTION: [DONE] Ben to contact Ed and Diego about new editors drafts
   coming down the pipe. [recorded in
   [21]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-rdfa-minutes.html#action01]

     [21] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-rdfa-minutes.html#action01

   ACTION: [PENDING] Jeremy to demonstrate GRDDL with XHTML/RDFa once
   the NS URI is set up. [recorded in
   [22]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]

     [22] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-rdfa-minutes.html#action07

   ACTION: [PENDING] Manu to create test cases for testing relative URI
   resolution (href/CURIEs/etc). [recorded in
   [23]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-rdfa-minutes.html#action22]

     [23] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-rdfa-minutes.html#action22

   ACTION: [PENDING] Manu write the perl code for Slashdot [recorded in
   [24]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action03]

     [24] http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action03

   ACTION: [DONE] Manu: Start Best Practices Section on the rdfa.info
   wiki [recorded in
   [25]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-rdfa-minutes.html#action16]

     [25] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-rdfa-minutes.html#action16

   -> [26]RDFa Best Practices (on wiki) [21]

     [26] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Aug/0093.html
     [21] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-rdfa-minutes.html#action01

   ACTION: [PENDING] Mark create base wizard suitable for cloning
   [recorded in
   [27]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]

     [27] http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action12

   ACTION: [PENDING] Mark write foaf examples for wiki [recorded in
   [28]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]

     [28] http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action07

   ACTION: [DONE] Michael to complete implementation report and send
   out notification to all working groups. [recorded in
   [29]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-rdfa-minutes.html#action20]

     [29] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-rdfa-minutes.html#action20

   ACTION: [PENDING] Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki
   [recorded in
   [30]http://www.w3.org/2008/03/13-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]

     [30] http://www.w3.org/2008/03/13-rdfa-minutes.html#action12

   ACTION: [DONE] Michael to rewrite and extend
   [31]http://rdfa.info/wiki/Tutorials for RSS (maybe with seq)
   [recorded in
   [32]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/10-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]

     [31] http://rdfa.info/wiki/Tutorials
     [32] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/10-rdfa-minutes.html#action08

   ACTION: [PENDING] Ralph think about RSS+RDFa [recorded in
   [33]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]

     [33] http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action11

   ACTION: [PENDING] Ralph to make
   [34]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/rdfa-xslt happen recorded in
   [35]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-rdfa-minutes.html#action05]

     [34] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/rdfa-xslt
     [35] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-rdfa-minutes.html#action05

   ACTION: [PENDING] Shane to start a wiki page for HTML4/5 [recorded
   in [36]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-rdfa-minutes.html#action21]

     [36] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-rdfa-minutes.html#action21

   ACTION: [PENDING] Shane to update XHTML ns document to point to new
   XSLT URI [recorded in
   [37]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]

     [37] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-rdfa-minutes.html#action06

   ACTION: [PENDING] Shane to write home page for SPREAD. [recorded in
   [38]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]

     [38] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action12

SWD WG telecon

   -> [39]19 Aug SWD WG telecon

     [39] http://www.w3.org/2008/08/19-swd-minutes

   -> [40]RDFa topic

     [40] http://www.w3.org/2008/08/19-swd-minutes#item03

   Ralph: They have agreed to look at RDFa Syntax document.

   Jeremy: Everything seemed good.

   Ralph: They are going to vote on proposed rec on RDFa at next week's
   telecon.

   <RalphS> [41]CURIE discussion

     [41] http://www.w3.org/2008/08/19-swd-minutes#item05

   Ralph: We had discovered that we missed a message from the XHTML2 WG
   to do a formal review response on LC for CURIE spec.

   <Steven> For shame! ;-)

   Ralph: I reminded them that it would be odd to not give input on
   content of CURIE spec, since it's used heavily in RDFa.
   ... Jeremy volunteered on stand-alone CURIE spec.

   Steven: the XHTML2 WG resolved yesterday to take RDFa Syntax to PR

   <Steven> And XForms are planning to use it

   Shane: there are 4 other specs using the standalone CURIE spec:
   XHTML Role, Access, XML Events 2, and XHTML2

   Jeremy: I note that CURIEs are more versatile than QNames

   <Steven> Yes, exactly

   <Steven> that's the point

   Manu: what's the next step?

   Ralph: SWD WG formally resolves to request PR transition -- likely
   to happen next Tuesday
   ... then Ralph schedules a Transition Meeting with Steve Bratt
   ... then, assuming Steve agrees we have met the CR exit criteria, we
   publish

   Shane: I need a new status paragraph from Ralph

   Ralph: right

   Ralph: Then, there is an announcement to the advisory committee,
   call for review for PR
   ... Also in that announcement, there is a solicitation for any
   member to offer a testimonial to go into the press release.
   ... There is a 4 week window for the review responses to arrive.
   ... So if call for review went out before Sept. 2nd, then some time
   in the beginning of October the team would look at the review
   responses.
   ... So we're looking at a directors response in early October.

   Steven: Would be good to do this before Technical Plenary.

   <Steven> TP is week of 20 Oct

   Ralph: We could have call for review before Sept. 2nd, Review closes
   before Oct 2nd, Directors decision before Oct 14th.

   Shane: When is publication moratorium?

   Ralph: I'd expect that it is no later than the 14th.

   post-meeting note: the last day for publication requests before TPAC
   is 1600 UTC, Monday 13 October per [42]Ian Jacob's message of
   2008-04-30

     [42] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2008AprJun/0066.html

Outreach

   Manu: over the past few months we've been working on slashdot,
   Yahoo, and digg to integrate RDFa
   ... digg had done it but recently removed the additions
   ... Ben is working with Yahoo
   ... any other tech sites we should work with?
   ... cnet ?
   ... connections to people who do press releases and news items?
   ... I can talk with my contact at BBC
   ... I'll also talk with Jamie Mccarthy at slashdot; they might be
   willing to do an interview

   ACTION: Manu talk with Jamie McCarthy about an AskSlashdot piece
   [recorded in
   [43]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-minutes.html#action22]

   ACTION: Manu talk with Michael Smethurst at BBC about RDFa [recorded
   in [44]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-minutes.html#action23]

   Manu: for community-building, we've started the wiki and
   public-rdfa@w3.org list

   Ralph: there are currently 72 subscribers to public-rdfa

   Manu: what can we do to get more conversation going?

   <msporny> Mozilla Labs Aurora Browser:
   [45]http://www.vimeo.com/1450211

     [45] http://www.vimeo.com/1450211

   <Steven> not to mention rdfa.info

   Manu: Aurora video is a concept piece
   ... everything they're doing is built around the concept of objects
   that can be moved around in a browser
   ... I recommend looking at those 4 videos

Implementations and Tools

   Jeremy: TopBraid has had some limited RDFa editing support for a
   long time
   ... the wsywyg editor is currently lower on our to-do list than
   other more pressing tasks
   ... though it's actually close to being done

   Manu: Firefox Operator is kind-of stalled at the moment
   ... new versions of Operator are being released but there's not been
   a lot of work lately on new ways to use RDFa

   Jeremy: we have a to-do feature list for TopBraid
   ... we work on the ones that customers are requiring

   Manu: customers might only get interested in RDFa once they see a
   really nice application implemented

   Jeremy: we believe in the usefulness of the technology

   Shane: this is a general challenge for RDF

   Jeremy: but consider spreadsheets -- TopBraid does support reading
   Excel spreadsheets because most of our customers do use Excel
   ... we don't have trouble selling RDF for integrating user
   information
   ... and we're likely not to have trouble selling RDFa

   Manu: I wonder if we should focus on getting some core pieces of
   RDFa into Firefox
   ... for example, the ability to parse RDFa and giving access to that
   triple store

   Ralph: yep, Tabulator @@ is a Firefox plug-in. It will have RDFa
   support via GRDDL as soon as I complete my action, but it would be a
   big performance win to have native RDFa parsing for tools like
   Tabulator

   Manu: is it our goal to have every browser parse RDFa?

   Jeremy: yes, yes, yes :)

   Steven: I'm not sure that it really matters in the short term
   ... it would be fine if they did, but life will go on if they don't
   ... there are extension points in browsers, so you can implement
   lots of functionality without the browser developers having to sign
   on
   ... we should not predicate our success on having to get the
   browsers to sign up

   Manu: so javascript and client side development our path?

   Steven: yes
   ... we saw the same sort of reaction in the early days of SVG and
   XSLT

   Ralph: maybe RDFa API for Javascript is low-hanging fruit?

   Steven: similar things are being discussed in the Backplane
   Incubator Group

   <JeremyCarroll> (I am convinced by Steven's comments)

   Steven: they're deciding that the way forward is to do APIs

   Manu: some of the core work we're dealing with at DigitalBazaar is
   hampered by the lack of standard APIs to triples

   Ralph: there's also the widget factory stuff

Documentation on Wiki

   Manu: who's been updating the wiki?

   [no voices]

   Manu: I'm interested in getting the discussion started on
   [public-rdfa] as that makes it much easier to update the wiki

   Shane: the only thing I plan to do is the HTML4+RDFa page

   Steven: I plan to do some updates to the implementations page

   Manu: do we have enough of a framework in the wiki now?

   Shane: not really but it will come with the growth of the community
   and continued evangelism

   Manu: I could flesh out the tutorial section a bit more based on
   experience from microformats
   ... Jeremy, would you care to expand on the TopBraid paragraph?

   ACTION: Jeremy review and consider expanding the description of
   TopBraid in the RDFa wiki [recorded in
   [46]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-minutes.html#action24]

   Ralph: don't forget about the Primer
   ... perhaps it could usefully be a bit longer

   Shane: have people thought about how we're going to deal with
   XMLLiteral in HTML4+RDFa ?

   Jeremy: I've thought about it but takes longer than 2 minutes to
   explain

   Manu: there's also the @prefix question for HTML4

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Jeremy review and consider expanding the description
   of TopBraid in the RDFa wiki [recorded in
   [47]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-minutes.html#action24]
   [NEW] ACTION: Manu talk with Jamie McCarthy about an AskSlashdot
   piece [recorded in
   [48]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-minutes.html#action22]
   [NEW] ACTION: Manu talk with Michael Smethurst at BBC about RDFa
   [recorded in
   [49]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-minutes.html#action23]
   [NEW] ACTION: Manu write a pending test case for literal property
   and no child nodes [recorded in
   [50]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-minutes.html#action02]
   [NEW] ACTION: Ralph prepare to summarize new W3C test suite license
   on 28 Aug [recorded in
   [51]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-minutes.html#action03]

   [PENDING] ACTION: Jeremy to demonstrate GRDDL with XHTML/RDFa once
   the NS URI is set up. [recorded in
   [52]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Manu to create test cases for testing relative URI
   resolution (href/CURIEs/etc). [recorded in
   [53]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-rdfa-minutes.html#action22]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Manu write the perl code for Slashdot [recorded in
   [54]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action03]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Mark create base wizard suitable for cloning
   [recorded in
   [55]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Mark write foaf examples for wiki [recorded in
   [56]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki
   [recorded in
   [57]http://www.w3.org/2008/03/13-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Michael to update Test Suite Manifest to correct
   tests 52 and 53 descriptions. [recorded in
   [58]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/14-rdfa-minutes.html#action02]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Ralph think about RSS+RDFa [recorded in
   [59]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Ralph to make
   [60]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/rdfa-xslt happen recorded in
   [61]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-rdfa-minutes.html#action05]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Shane to start a wiki page for HTML4/5 [recorded
   in [62]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-rdfa-minutes.html#action21]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Shane to update XHTML ns document to point to new
   XSLT URI [recorded in
   [63]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Shane to write home page for SPREAD. [recorded in
   [64]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]

     [52] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-rdfa-minutes.html#action07
     [53] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-rdfa-minutes.html#action22
     [54] http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action03
     [55] http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action12
     [56] http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action07
     [57] http://www.w3.org/2008/03/13-rdfa-minutes.html#action12
     [58] http://www.w3.org/2008/08/14-rdfa-minutes.html#action02
     [59] http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action11
     [60] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/rdfa-xslt
     [61] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-rdfa-minutes.html#action05
     [62] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-rdfa-minutes.html#action21
     [63] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-rdfa-minutes.html#action06
     [64] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action12

   [DONE] ACTION: Ben and Manu to test implementations on step 9 (no
   child nodes with @property) [recorded in
   [65]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/14-rdfa-minutes.html#action23]
   [DONE] ACTION: Ben to contact Ed and Diego about new editors drafts
   coming down the pipe. [recorded in
   [66]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-rdfa-minutes.html#action01]
   [DONE] ACTION: Manu: Start Best Practices Section on the rdfa.info
   wiki [recorded in
   [67]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-rdfa-minutes.html#action16]
   [DONE] ACTION: Michael to complete implementation report and send
   out notification to all working groups. [recorded in
   [68]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-rdfa-minutes.html#action20]
   [DONE] ACTION: Michael to rewrite and extend
   [69]http://rdfa.info/wiki/Tutorials for RSS (maybe with seq)
   [recorded in
   [70]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/10-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]
   [DONE] ACTION: Ralph to send note to Alan regarding ISSUE-122
   resolution [recorded in
   [71]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/14-rdfa-minutes.html#action24]
   [DONE] ACTION: Shane to respond to ISSUE-125 on mailing list
   [recorded in
   [72]http://www.w3.org/2008/08/14-rdfa-minutes.html#action25]

     [65] http://www.w3.org/2008/08/14-rdfa-minutes.html#action23
     [66] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-rdfa-minutes.html#action01
     [67] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-rdfa-minutes.html#action16
     [68] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-rdfa-minutes.html#action20
     [69] http://rdfa.info/wiki/Tutorials
     [70] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/10-rdfa-minutes.html#action08
     [71] http://www.w3.org/2008/08/14-rdfa-minutes.html#action24
     [72] http://www.w3.org/2008/08/14-rdfa-minutes.html#action25

   [End of minutes]
     _____________________________________________________


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