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SVG WG meeting minutes 07-17-2014

From: Dirk Schulze <dschulze@adobe.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 14:09:16 +0000
To: SVG WG <public-svg-wg@w3.org>, CSS WG <w3c-css-wg@w3.org>
Message-ID: <AF51456C-D739-4C8F-B182-EAABBF8B7F7F@adobe.com>
Hi,

Here are the meeting minutes of 07-17-2014: http://www.w3.org/2014/07/17-svg-minutes.html

Greetings,
Dirk

   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                               - DRAFT -

                    SVG Working Group Teleconference

17 Jul 2014

   [2]Agenda

      [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2014JulSep/0009.html

   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2014/07/17-svg-irc

Attendees

   Present
          krit, [IPcaller], heycam, birtles, Smailus, nikos__,
          +33.9.75.61.aaaa, Tav, stakagi, ChrisL, Doug_Schepers,
          [IBM]

   Regrets
          Erik

   Chair
          Cameron

   Scribe
          krit

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]list object method issues
         2. [6]A11Y TF
         3. [7]SVG WG charta
     * [8]Summary of Action Items
     __________________________________________________________

   <trackbot> Date: 17 July 2014

   <scribe> ScribeNick: krit

   ScribeNick krit

list object method issues

   heycam: there are some issue that I wanted to bring up
   ... bringing back up tpday
   ... no spec changes till today
   ... FF should align to something
   ... in the spec, the methods on the list types LengthList… if
   you call with Length object and it is owned from another
   element
   ... what should happen
   ... the spec says it should be removed from the other link

   *list

   heycam: spec does not say if you try to append a baseVal or
   animVal from another element

   krit: not sure what you mean

   <heycam>
   textElement.x.baseVal.appendItem(rectElement.x.baseVal)

   heycam: the spec says for lists but not for types like the case
   above

   krit: did yo check browsers

   heycam: browsers don’t agree

   <heycam>
   [9]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-svg-wg/2014JulSep/0
   001.html

      [9] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-svg-wg/2014JulSep/0001.html

   heycam: IE is most consistent
   ... nobody says what the spec says
   ... no browser removed elements from another list

   krit: sure about that? We had tests in WebKit

   heycam: I should test that as welll
   ... the test here was for SVGLength
   ... tried to append that to a list
   ... and the other way around
   ... for those cases (property on element) no browsers appends
   the object to the list but creates a copy (at least IE)
   ... FF adds a reference to the list… two places reference to
   the same SVGLength
   ... for the case where SVGLength is in a list, we create a copy
   before adding it to baseVal
   ... Safari and Blink crashed both on the last case
   ... I think we want to follow IEs behavior… it is most
   consistent

   <ChrisL> It *is* important to make the SVG DOM better. It is
   the number one complaint

   krit: I am fine with following IE, independent of consistency
   ... who is complaining

   ChrisL: We had a lot of complains about how SVG DOM works in
   general

   heycam: did not get manually created Lists, SVGLength values
   but should do that
   ... are you ok with resolving all 4 parts of the proposels

   krit: how about removing SVGLength from animVal list and
   appending it somewhere else?

   heycam: that is the last item… IE and FF still create a copy

   krit: did you try removing elements form animVal lists?

   heycam: not yet
   ... so krit, you want to copy even on baseVal lists?
   ... As long as I can create SVGLengh and append it to a list I
   want to keep reference
   ... between baseVal lists, I am probably fine to create copies
   as well
   ... I would limit the resolution to the 4 cases for now
   ... any objections to the proposed behavior of creating copies
   for the 4 cases in my demo?

   ChrisL: seems ok for me

   RESOLUTION: Appending an SVG item that is owned by another item
   should create a copy before appending

   <scribe> ACTION: heycam Edit spec: Appending an SVG item that
   is owned by another item should create a copy before appending
   [recorded in
   [10]http://www.w3.org/2014/07/17-svg-minutes.html#action01]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-3634 - Edit spec: appending an svg
   item that is owned by another item should create a copy before
   appending [on Cameron McCormack - due 2014-07-24].

A11Y TF

   <heycam>
   [11]http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/work-statement

     [11] http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/work-statement

   heycam: I was send a draft of the charter for this TF
   ... didn’t review unless recently
   ... here it is
   ... you probably didn’t look at it yet
   ... Main issue: under which WG should it live
   ... the document says jointly in SVG and A11Y group

   <ChrisL> joint (like FX) and separate ml seems fine

   heycam: as TF product and comments go to the mailing list of
   this TF
   ... most of it describes the mapping guide for SVG elements to
   roles
   ... that is the main document

   krit: what else is on the scope

   <ChrisL> "The primary tool for providing feedback to the SVG WG
   is Bugzilla." is that true/desireable?

   heycam: a11y notes
   ... but not part of the TF

   ChrisL: TF can’t add anything to the scope that isn’t already
   in the scope of all participating WGs
   ... so we need to make sure that the important things are in
   the scope of the SG wG

   heycam: also in the charta: weekly tel conferences

   ChrisL: having a situation where ppl get scared by penalties
   and don’t participate isn’t good same where it is not enforced
   like FX TF and the there is no joint work all together

   <ChrisL> +1 to Doug

   <ChrisL>
   [12]http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/work-statement

     [12] http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/work-statement

   [general discussion about imporatance about TF chartas ]

   shepazu: there is this mapping document with a11y
   requirements…. but is that all we can do?

   rich: I agree… we can do more than that

   ChrisL: it shouldn’t be to narrow… the scope should be
   broader...
   ... addresses are ppl implementing and ppl creating accessible
   documents

   rich: I agree

   ChrisL: speaking about open: WPS is a member only group...

   shepazu: not anymore

   <ChrisL> woohoo!

   rich: All aria is done in the open same for implementation
   guides

   ChrisL: woohoo!

   shepazu: I might be wrong

   <shepazu> [13]http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/charter201006

     [13] http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/charter201006

   ChrisL: it is chartered as a members only group but decides to
   do specs open

   heycam: at least the TF charter has an open mailing list

   ChrisL: th echarter needs to specifically say it is public

   shepazu: and broader scope

   heycam: do TF need to have a staff contact

   ChrisL: not really

   heycam: it says it needs to be decided who chairs
   ... I’ll reply with the two requests from above

   <ChrisL> list of participants leads to a "not authorized" page

SVG WG charta

   ChrisL: just want to make sure that we have the right names for
   a11y specs

   rich: yeah, I need to check who is working on the 2nd document
   ... we have authoring user guide… we will have one for HTML…
   shepazu do you want to do the one for SVG?

   shepazu: I think I can tag all that

   <ChrisL> heycam I saw your email with feedback, krit yours too.
   I will fold in those edits after the call

   <heycam> ChrisL, thanks

   shepazu: I would rather want to have a document on WPD instead
   of a static document

   heycam: when do we need to send the last comments?

   ChrisL: today!
   ... (or by Tuesday)

   <ChrisL> <connector><fallback>Please use a browser that
   supports Connectors</fallback> stuff </connector>

   shepazu: What do you think about CC-BY license?
   ...

   <ChrisL> difference is that it requires attribution

   heycam: IIRC David Baron has problems with CC-By

   shepazu: Some ppl believe that CC=By is not compatible with GPL
   ... that is Mozilla’s lawyer interpretation but not of everyone

   <ChrisL> reasonable legal opinion disagrees that CC-By is not
   compatible with GPL

   krit: we use SVG2 on base of SVG 1.1… which is licensed with
   W3C license… we can change it but AC might push back

   ChrisL: please send feedback to chart before tuesday

   trackbot, make minutes

   <trackbot> Sorry, krit, I don't understand 'trackbot, make
   minutes'. Please refer to
   <[14]http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.

     [14] http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc%3E

   trackbot, make minutes

   <trackbot> Sorry, krit, I don't understand 'trackbot, make
   minutes'. Please refer to
   <[15]http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.

     [15] http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc%3E

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: heycam Edit spec: Appending an SVG item that is
   owned by another item should create a copy before appending
   [recorded in
   [16]http://www.w3.org/2014/07/17-svg-minutes.html#action01]

   [End of minutes]
     __________________________________________________________


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    1.138 ([18]CVS log)
    $Date: 2014-07-17 14:07:05 $
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     [18] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

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Succeeded: s/I I I I got.. I I/ I think I can tag all that/
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Found ScribeNick: krit
Inferring Scribes: krit
Default Present: krit, [IPcaller], heycam, birtles, Smailus, nikos__, +3
3.9.75.61.aaaa, Tav, stakagi, ChrisL, Doug_Schepers, [IBM]
Present: krit [IPcaller] heycam birtles Smailus nikos__ +33.9.75.61.aaaa
 Tav stakagi ChrisL Doug_Schepers [IBM]
Regrets: Erik
Agenda: [20]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2014JulSep
/0009.html
Found Date: 17 Jul 2014
Guessing minutes URL: [21]http://www.w3.org/2014/07/17-svg-minutes.html
People with action items: heycam

     [20] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2014JulSep/0009.html
     [21] http://www.w3.org/2014/07/17-svg-minutes.html

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