minutes, 18 April 2013 SVG WG telcon

Minutes from this week's SVG WG telcon are below.

   http://www.w3.org/2013/04/18-svg-minutes.html


    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

                     SVG Working Group Teleconference

18 Apr 2013

    [2]Agenda

       [2] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2013AprJun/0077.html

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2013/04/18-svg-irc

Attendees

    Present
           +1.425.373.aaaa, birtles, ed, Krit, heycam, cabanier,
           Doug_Schepers, +1.415.832.aabb, [IPcaller]

    Regrets
           Tav, Rich

    Chair
           Cameron

    Scribe
           cabanier

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]being the telecon 30 min earlier
          2. [6]meeting at TPAC
          3. [7]responsibilities for the test suite
          4. [8]what to do with features with SVG1.1 that are not
             interoperable or implement
          5. [9]Test the web forward attendees / topics
          6. [10]technical documentation
      * [11]Summary of Action Items
      __________________________________________________________

    <trackbot> Date: 18 April 2013

    <scribe> scribenick: cabanier

being the telecon 30 min earlier

    krit: fine with me

    heycam: we should start that next week

    … can we resolve that

    all: sounds good

    resolution: we will start telecon 30min earlier (1:30PT)

    <scribe> ACTION: heycam to change the telecon bridge time
    changed [recorded in
    [12]http://www.w3.org/2013/04/18-svg-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-3487 - Change the telecon bridge time
    changed [on Cameron McCormack - due 2013-04-25].

    <birtles>
    [13]http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=
    04&day=25&year=2013&hour=20&min=30&sec=0&p1=0

      [13] 
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=04&day=25&year=2013&hour=20&min=30&sec=0&p1=0

meeting at TPAC

    heycam: we already decided we would do that

    <heycam>
    [14]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2013AprJu
    n/0063.html

      [14] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2013AprJun/0063.html

    … for our third f2f. there was a note sent to the chairs

    … in this email. one note was if we wanted a 3 day meeting
    instead of a 2 day one

    … my feeling is that 2 days is cramped especially if we meet
    other team

    krit: an extra day will likely conflict

    heycam: I'm not sure when the extra day is

    krit: we have too many conflicts with other working groups

    heycam: yes, I noticed that too. Tokyo and TPAC are taken up
    with joint meeting with CSS

    … we should consider that for later meetings

    … I can ask the organizers when this extra day would be

    … monday-tuesday is wg meetings at tpac

    … third day would be thursday or friday. This might overlap
    with other groups

    krit: let's ask first and decide afterward

    shepazu: we could resolve that the 3 days if there are no
    conflicts otherwise we'll have 2

    krit: that's fine with me

    heycam: css is going to be the big one. We will want joint and
    separate time

    shepazu: also webapps

    heycam: is the feeling that we don't want the third day if it
    overlaps other groups?

    … we don't know how we're going to be scheduled.

    shepazu: you can ask what their plans are.

    … we can ask for 3 days and see if we can use them

    <scribe> ACTION: heycam to respond to the TPAC questionnaire
    [recorded in
    [15]http://www.w3.org/2013/04/18-svg-minutes.html#action02]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-3488 - Respond to the TPAC
    questionnaire [on Cameron McCormack - due 2013-04-25].

    heycam: we need to say what groups we want to join up with

    shepazu: it would be good to meet with CSS and HTML

responsibilities for the test suite

    krit: ???

    heycam: what we discussed was splitting the spec in sections
    and assign it to people

    krit: I will take masking and filters

    heycam: we need to make sure that we have tests for new stuff

    … I think that was blocked on me assigning this to people

    … also I need to sort out the shepard installation

    … we can check in test to the repository without the setup
    though

    … I will move that action higher on my todo list

    … does anything else need to be done?

    krit: just write the tests

    heycam: I think we want the existing tests in the right shape

    … I also want to write a script to convert the test to the new
    template that works with shepard

    … it might be good if I do that as well

    … and add it to the repository and then assign it to people

    krit: we have tests in webkit and mozilla.. Maybe we can reuse
    them in the new testsuite

    heycam: are you planning to move the SVG 1.1 masking and
    filters tests to the FX repository where the specs live

    krit: we can leave them in SVG for now

    … at some point they will be in shepard so they will be all in
    the same repository

    heycam: do you already have some tests?

    krit: yes

    heycam: I will do the migration of the test and then mail out
    the plan

what to do with features with SVG1.1 that are not interoperable or
implement

    krit: for SVG2 we want to follow the W3C spec

    … do we already have a list of these missing features

    heycam: you want to see a list of features?

    krit: if there is a feature that is not implemented by 2 user
    agents?

    heycam: you can mark it as at-risk and remove it.

    cabanier: This is a 'should' not a 'must'?

    shepazu: what are you saying?

    heycam: should we drop non-interoperable or missing features?

    thomas: from boeing, text-link is something that we were
    wondering why it was never implemented

    … we are wondering what would replace it

    <ed> textLength?

    … it is of critical importance to us

    <ed> that's implemented by more than 2 user agents AFAIK

    shepazu: that's an interesting case.

    … we can write tests

    … so people support it and correctly

    … I know Cameron wants to support it for Firefox

    heycam: there is no opposition.

    thomas: we need to control the exact position of text elements

    heycam: I wonder if the advent of web fonts negates the problem

    … it might be interesting see what problem you're trying to
    solve

    thomas: I need to be able to control where the test is render

    … a wiring diagram with a wire and you put a label. You need
    the text to be right in the middle.

    shepazu: maybe connectors will solve the problem?

    heycam: we could decide if certain features won't make the cut

    … especially if otherwise we have to write test to drop them

    … we can discuss particular features

    … is that OK with you dirk?

    … if we know that there are features that we know ahead of time
    will be cut, we can remove

    <ed>
    [16]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/text-text-01-
    b.svg - test data: passed by 4 independent implementations -
    [17]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/status/implementa
    tion_matrix.html

      [16] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/text-text-01-b.svg
      [17] 
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/status/implementation_matrix.html

    <ed> that's for textLength

Test the web forward attendees / topics

    krit: is someone attending?

    cabanier: I am

    krit: I will be there too

    ed: maybe

    <heycam> I will be leaving on Thursday night, so I won't be
    there

    krit: we expect a lot of participants

    birtles: I can't go. A couple from mozilla Japan will go too

    krit: one of the topics will be filter effects.

    cabanier: there will be a blending topic as well

    birtles: is there any information?

    krit: Google is hosting and we're organizing

    ed: it would be good to mail the list as an announcement

    … do we need an action to make sure the info is on the site?

    krit: no

    ed: any other agenda requests?

    krit: I changed the style of filter effects and masking for
    elements

    ed: do we want this for the SVG spec?

    krit: It's harder to find consensus. Noone agrees so we can
    leave it for now.

    ed: that's fine

    … can we publish the filter spec soon?

    krit: there are some issues with mask that affect filters as
    well

    … I'm a bit lost with the concepts.

    cabanier: those are different security issues, right? It's is
    CORS

    krit: how you fetch resources is an issue

    … do you need more info?

    ed: if you want to ask the css group again, that's fine

    krit: I'm trying to create a wiki with Anne's and Roc's remarks

    … it's very confusing

    … I will keep the discussion on the mailing list for now

technical documentation

    shepazu: many people have said that they want to use SVG
    instead of WebCGM

    … is this of interest to you?

    thomas: we've been using CGM in the past and going forward we
    did a study

    … WebCGM was rejected because it's half baked and unstable
    while SVG is more consistent

    … it solves 90% of the problem

    … the enduser will see SVG in our world

    shepazu: it's interesting that there's a market where SVG is
    suited

    … it's not much of a stretch to go to 100%

    … I would love to see what use cases are missing and how we can
    meet those

    thomas: I would love to do that

    shepazu: I would to bring up connectors

    … there is no format to represent graphs and I would like to
    make it a first class citizen of the web

    … non-scaling strokes are in the spec now

    krit: Webkit, firefox and opera have them

    shepazu: are there other things?

    thomas: I mentioned text-length

    … that let's you specify exact text layout

    shepazu: Web fonts let you pick an exact font

    … but it doesn't let you do distortions

    cabanier: he is not asking for distortions

    thomas: what we currently do, is export with text-lenght and
    scale later so it matches the length

    <heycam> Firefox bug for textLength -
    [18]https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=569722

      [18] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=569722

    … if the spec was implemented, we would not have a problem

    ed: I think this is just an implementation bug

    heycam: is this because there's a fundamental problem?

    thomas: MS and Mozilla told me that it was not important enough

    heycam: it's good to hear from people

    krit: is this feature what you actually want?

    thomas: from reading, textlenght will do what we need it to do

    krit: in that case, you should bring it up with the different
    browser vendors

    shepazu: we can make a use case document and have all the tests

    … Thomas, if you can do that, it will help us push that feature

    <scribe> ACTION: Thomas to write to write a test suite for text
    length [recorded in
    [19]http://www.w3.org/2013/04/18-svg-minutes.html#action03]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-3489 - Write to write a test suite
    for text length [on Thomas Smailus - due 2013-04-25].

    heycam: I think we have 1 test

    <heycam> This is the only test for textLength / lengthAdjust, I
    think:
    [20]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Test/20110816/harness/htmlOb
    jectApproved/text-text-01-b.html

      [20] 
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Test/20110816/harness/htmlObjectApproved/text-text-01-b.html

    shepazu: you need to port the test to the new format. You
    should also create a use case document

    … maybe it should also be a CSS feature?

    krit: I think that will be hard to do.

    shepazu: I agree that putting it in SVG will be far quicker

    … Thomas, is there a community group for technical
    documentation?

    thomas: I don't know

    shepazu: maybe we can connect with people from the WebCGM
    community

    … and see if other people want this feature

    thomas: another thing is that WebCGM is a plugin. Our customers
    are very reluctant to rely on plugins.

    shepazu: are there other features that are missing?

    thomas: let me do a look and see if there are other ones

    * cameron, can you send the minutes out? *

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: heycam to change the telecon bridge time changed
    [recorded in
    [21]http://www.w3.org/2013/04/18-svg-minutes.html#action01]
    [NEW] ACTION: heycam to respond to the TPAC questionnaire
    [recorded in
    [22]http://www.w3.org/2013/04/18-svg-minutes.html#action02]
    [NEW] ACTION: Thomas to write to write a test suite for text
    length [recorded in
    [23]http://www.w3.org/2013/04/18-svg-minutes.html#action03]

    [End of minutes]
      __________________________________________________________

Received on Thursday, 18 April 2013 22:35:26 UTC