W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-svg-wg@w3.org > July to September 2012

Minutes, 5 July 2012 SVG WG telcon

From: Brian Birtles <bbirtles@mozilla.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 14:48:37 -0700 (PDT)
To: www-svg@w3.org
Message-ID: <1728272015.10379206.1341524917656.JavaMail.root@mozilla.com>
Minutes:

     http://www.w3.org/2012/07/05-svg-minutes.html

and as text:

   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                               - DRAFT -

                    SVG Working Group Teleconference

05 Jul 2012

   [2]Agenda

      [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JulSep/0000.html

   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2012/07/05-svg-irc

Attendees

   Present
   Regrets
   Chair
          SV_MEETING_CHAIR

   Scribe
          birtles

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]SVG F2F at SVG Open
         2. [6]Seattle/Paris F2F
         3. [7]pointer-events
         4. [8]Dirk's question about media fragments
     * [9]Summary of Action Items
     __________________________________________________________

   <trackbot> Date: 05 July 2012

   <scribe> scribenick: birtles

SVG F2F at SVG Open

   heycam, have we resolved on this yet?

   <ed_home>
   [10]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/F2F_SVGOpen_2012

     [10] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/F2F_SVGOpen_2012

   CM: asked Andreas about this, fine but we need to let him know
   if we will meet before or after SVG open

   ED: we have a wiki which suggests we've resolved it

   <ed_home> 17 - 19 September 2012

   ED: it says 17th-19th Sep

   CM: i.e. directly after SVG Open
   ... so it's going ahead?
   ... I'll get to Andreas with those dates

Seattle/Paris F2F

   <ed_home>
   [11]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/F2F/Seattle_Paris_20
   12/Agenda_proposals

     [11] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/F2F/Seattle_Paris_2012/Agenda_proposals

   ED: please remember to add agenda topics

   <ed_home>
   [12]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/F2F/Seattle_Paris_20
   12

     [12] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/F2F/Seattle_Paris_2012

   ED: Cyril added some details for the Paris part

   CM: The hotel is about 20min walk from the venue
   ... I wonder how it will work logistically

   DS: I'll probably rent a car...

   <heycam>
   [13]https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/19480/SVGSeattleParis2012/re
   sults

     [13] https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/19480/SVGSeattleParis2012/results

   DS: some others live there
   ... who is actually attending Seattle?
   ... we have 6 non-locals: we could rent a bigger vehicle or see
   if Rik can help

   [14]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/F2F/Seattle_Paris_20
   12

     [14] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/F2F/Seattle_Paris_2012

   scribe: those of us flying in should share our info
   ... I'll put my information there and people who want a ride
   can... can... can...
   ... I'll work it out with Rik

   CC: I tested the videoconferencing equipment with Adobe and we
   couldn't make a full test
   ... I'd like to make another test this week
   ... I'll email them

   CM: it's three days of meetings right?

   ED: yes

   CM: do we want to focus on spec work during those days?
   ... since we want to publish directly after the F2F

   DS: I'd like us to spend about 1/3rd of the time (a bit each
   day) working on specs

   ED: fine with me

   CC: In Paris we could work in the afternoon before the
   conference
   ... and in Seattle you could work after the conference
   ... then it wouldn't have to start so early in Seattle

   CM: I'll send a mail out to the list with a proposal about
   allocating time for spec work

pointer-events

Dirk's question about media fragments

   CM: Dirk sent an email with concerns about media fragments and
   how that interacts with our SVG view specifications that you
   can put in URI references
   ... he was concerned that the media fragment spec uses
   predefined identifiers x, y, t etc.
   ... that that would conflict with SVG elements with IDs with
   those identifiers
   ... with media fragments you always have to put something after
   the identifier with =
   ... I don't think that problem actually occurs

   DS: there's a problem with using barename hash with media
   values
   ... it makes sense with video for that resource to have time
   information
   ... but what if you visit an HTML page which contains a video
   ... sites like youtube pass the fragment into the video
   ... seems fragile but maybe ok
   ... but what about an HTML or SVG page that has multiple media
   resources
   ... what if you want to target only one of those resources
   ... e.g. two videos and four soundtracks
   ... the application lets you take clips from each one of those
   ... and lets you mix them together
   ... I want to target the timepoint of just one video

   CC: it depends how many timelines you have in your document

   DS: yes, how do you target just one
   ... I don't think there's a mechanism for that
   ... what do you do?
   ... how do you parameterise it?
   ... what if I want to target one video and the italian
   audiotrack?

   CC: that's not up to the media fragments spec
   ... it's up to the document to do what it wants with the time

   DS: I'm concerned that that's fragile
   ... there's no way of targetting a specific element with a
   specific time
   ... making the document do it all is more work for the
   application

   CM: sounds like an issue for the media fragments spec
   ... Dirk's concern was more with incompatibility with SVG
   syntax
   ... I still don't think there's incompatibility
   ... but being able to address multiple times within a
   multi-resource document sounds like something to be solved
   within media fragments
   ... and not related to integrating with SVG

   ED: so there are no incompatibilities?

   CM: not unless we allow IDs with = signs
   ... but currently they are XML Names so we're ok

   ED: would we have to special case fragments in SVG? or just
   point to media fragments?

   CM: we might want to reformulate svgViews as a type of hash
   that falls under the media fragment scheme
   ... or just make it a top-level switch: either viewbox or media
   fragment
   ... it would probably have to stay separate

   DS: I think we need to work with them
   ... I'd like to raise a slightly different issue around IDs
   ... they are currently XML Names
   ... I see so many files that are invalid because people want to
   use a number for an ID
   ... I don't know why IDs starting with numbers aren't allowed
   ... but in retrospect it seems ridiculous
   ... now you have to do, e.g. id="e1" or id="_1"
   ... do you think it's reasonable we go against that
   ... there are two communities: do the XML thing; or, people
   want to use numbers so let them
   ... do you think it might be worth allow a different
   microsyntax for IDs to allow numbers?

   CM: seems reasonable, since HTML allows it

   DS: we'd have to disallow = signs for compatibility with media
   fragments

   CM: I think id was moving from HTMLElement/SVGElement to
   Element in the IDL
   ... so if there's a single place for it, then it should have
   consistent behavior
   ... and it's good from an authors expectations point of view

   DS: I'd like to align with HTML/DOM here

   ED: I agree

   CM: I don't think HTML does any special with what follows the #
   but just makes it all an ID ref

   DS: do you think we could resolve to use the HTML production?

   CM: the HTML spec says "an opaque string"
   ... there's some trickiness with non-ASCII values
   ... and special URL encoding
   ... but I'd be in favour of aligning here

   RESOLUTION: we will align HTML/DOM on ID attribute values
   (incl. numbers as the first character)
   ... we will work to avoid conflict in our fragment identifiers
   with Media Fragments

   rssagent, make minutes

Summary of Action Items

   [End of minutes]
     __________________________________________________________


    Minutes formatted by David Booth's [15]scribe.perl version
    1.136 ([16]CVS log)
    $Date: 2012/07/05 21:44:48 $
     __________________________________________________________

     [15] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
     [16] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

   [Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136  of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43
Check for newer version at [17]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/
scribe/

     [17] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Found ScribeNick: birtles
Inferring Scribes: birtles

WARNING: No "Present: ... " found!
Possibly Present: CC CM Cyril DS Doug_Schepers ED P10 P11 birtles ed_hom
e ed_tmp heycam https inserted scribenick trackbot
You can indicate people for the Present list like this:
        <dbooth> Present: dbooth jonathan mary
        <dbooth> Present+ amy

Agenda: [18]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JulSep
/0000.html

     [18] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JulSep/0000.html

WARNING: No meeting chair found!
You should specify the meeting chair like this:
<dbooth> Chair: dbooth

Found Date: 05 Jul 2012
Guessing minutes URL: [19]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/05-svg-minutes.html
People with action items:

     [19] http://www.w3.org/2012/07/05-svg-minutes.html


   End of [20]scribe.perl diagnostic output]

     [20] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
Received on Thursday, 5 July 2012 21:49:12 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Thursday, 5 July 2012 21:49:12 GMT