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Minutes, 20 April SVG telcon

From: Chris Lilley <chris@w3.org>
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 00:40:02 +0200
Message-ID: <931572335.20120420004002@w3.org>
To: SVG WG <public-svg-wg@w3.org>
Hello SVG,

Minutes in HTML
http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-svg-minutes.html

and text below for tracker

                   SVG Working Group Teleconference

19 Apr 2012

   [2]Agenda

      [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012AprJun/0014.html

   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-svg-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Doug_Schepers, heycam, cabanier, [Microsoft], Cyril,
          ChrisL, +61.2.980.5.aaaa, Tav, +61.2.980.5.aabb, krit,
          nikos

   Regrets
   Chair
          Cameron

   Scribe
          krit

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]Progress update on SVG 2
         2. [6]SVG 2 editing process
         3. [7]test content guidelines
         4. [8]F2Fs
         5. [9]f2f
         6. [10]review of path related cancas additions
     * [11]Summary of Action Items
     __________________________________________________________

   <trackbot> Date: 19 April 2012

   I try, but I can not call in. The US number doesn't work for me

   heycam: I don't:(

   <Cyril> it is working for me via Skype

   <cabanier> for me too

   <ChrisL> tav, speak for a moment

   <heycam> Scribe: krit

Progress update on SVG 2

   <heycam>
   [12]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Co
   mmitments

     [12] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Commitments

   heycam: Want to see the assignments on the wiki
   ... original plan was publish 1st WD at the end of the month
   ... will be sections added we assgined for
   ... + changes

   Cyril: it is a chnage to the planning on the page

   <Cyril>
   [13]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Planning_Page

     [13] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Planning_Page

   Cyril: all placeholdershould be published by april
   ... we have to prepare for traveling and so on

   heycam: we won't publish the WD in april

   Cyril: what about july? too late?

   heycam: it depends
   ... published draft even very intial would be good
   ... who did not so far, sign up till next week
   ... and add topics into spec

   shepazu: is playback for audio element? script API?

   heycam: let me take a look

   <heycam>
   [14]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2069

     [14] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2069

   heycam: proposals

   shepazu: markup properties or attrubutes?
   ... I m not an audio guy but in the audiio WD. I won't work on
   it ut am happy to talk with the people there.
   ... we should coordinate with audio WG

   heycam: move on

   shepazu: one more question
   ... I put a question mark on one of the list items
   ... In case someone wants to work on it
   ... just contact on IRC

   heycam: even with question marks, looks like you are assigned

   shepazu: will we have a confilct

   ?

   heycam: was off topic … confilcts on wiki page

   <ChrisL> I was editing (and saving) a bunch during the call

   heycam: next topic

SVG 2 editing process

   heycam: I came up with a proposal

   ChrisL: I think it is fine in general
   ... we can discuss if some one to objects

   <heycam>
   [15]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Editing_Process

     [15] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Editing_Process

   shepazu: It changes to resolved

   heycam: people asgined to a feature go ahead to change the
   section they are asigned for. Group will check it afterwards

   ChrisL: is the list is complete? I don't find sths, like mask
   (alpha, luminance)
   ... I'd like to assign for it

   krit: Vhardy and ed o'connnor want to work on it on FX TF

   ChrisL: right, but how does it get into SVG 2

   <ChrisL> ok as long as someone is doing it. css wg seems to
   want this urgently

   <heycam>
   [16]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2401

     [16] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2401

   <Cyril>
   [17]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_In
   put#Hit-testing_on_image_alpha

     [17] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#Hit-testing_on_image_alpha

   <ChrisL> cyril that is not the same

   ChrisL: people say we want what svg does
   ... but it does more than we want

   Cyril: can you explain

   ChrisL: currently masking use the mask element
   ... mask is done by calculating luminance and that gets
   multiplied with the alpha
   ... we may want just have alpha masking
   ... don't find resolutions for it

   <ChrisL> ACTION: chris propose an update to masking for
   luminance and alpha and pointing directly at images [recorded
   in [18]http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-svg-minutes.html#action01]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-3256 - Propose an update to masking
   for luminance and alpha and pointing directly at images [on
   Chris Lilley - due 2012-04-26].

   <scribe> ACTION: ChrisL will look at alpha masking and
   luminance masking and talk to vhardy [recorded in
   [19]http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-svg-minutes.html#action02]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-3257 - Will look at alpha masking and
   luminance masking and talk to vhardy [on Chris Lilley - due
   2012-04-26].

   <Cyril>
   [20]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_In
   put#Late_Proposed_Requirements

     [20] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#Late_Proposed_Requirements

   Cyril: we should take a look at the late propoesed
   requirementss

   <scribe> scribeNick: heycam

   <ChrisL> scribenick: chrisl

   Tav: can wee resolve on the requirement for masking

   (yes)

   resolution: we will allow masks to use either alpha or
   luminance or both

   ChrisL: and pointing direct to images?

   tav: how would you specify if you want alpha or what

   ChrisL: the property would do that

   resolution: : svg will relax restriction on masks pointing to
   mask element only

   Cyril: did we resolve on the editing proposal

   heycam: yas and we already resolved on it earlier apparently

   ChrisL: prefer to soften the three week paer

   tav: yes

   heycam: ok

test content guidelines

   heycam: brian was aksing for guidelines so they can succeed or
   fail in the same way like all green rectangles

   tav: like red and green but if they all look the same it is
   confusing
   ... doesnt say what is being tested
   ... dont want a rect that covers the whole thing

   heycam: if the tests are automated you won't need to look at
   them

   Tav: so there is no debugging help

   Cyril: point is to automate error detection

   heycam: also easier to make reference images. but with text or
   paths there can be pixel differences. also easier to determine
   pass or fail

   Tav: but for transforms, css or attr version should be te same
   so no pixel diffferences

   heycam: ok
   ... some tests might be simple enough you want just a plain
   rect.

   Tav: ok for red gren fail/pass unless it is testing colors

   shepazu: we need to test for red colours for example

   Tav: we did that on the last test suite

   shepazu: good to have tests that can be automatically detected

   Cyril: yes bt we do not need green flood fill for that

   Tav: subtract the ref images

   shepazu: ok

   heycam: for animation, brian suggests tests where the final
   state is at one second so there is a snapshot to compare to the
   ref
   ... script can sett the time to that point

   ChrisL: for path animations you need multiple snapshots surely

   heycam: we agreed to add snapshot time so we could use that to
   annotate the test

   Cyril: gpac has a way to generate an xml which logs the
   snapshot time and you can have key events and when it replays,
   the snapshots are generated at the marked times
   ... want it sampled every time there is a change. the author
   knows the critical times

   heycam: yes it is really a feature of the test itself
   ... avoid tests with many simultaneous animations

   tav: examples of animation reftests?

   heycam: not yet

   Cyril: can send an example

   <Tav>
   [21]http://tavmjong.free.fr/SVG/CSS/Transforms/transforms-basic
   -001.html

     [21] http://tavmjong.free.fr/SVG/CSS/Transforms/transforms-basic-001.html

   <scribe> ACTION: cyril to send examples of gpac animation
   testing [recorded in
   [22]http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-svg-minutes.html#action03]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-3258 - Send examples of gpac
   animation testing [on Cyril Concolato - due 2012-04-26].

   heycam: like that excample, tav

   tav: no browser passes yet

   heycam: ok so aiming for a single green or red rect is not
   good, but if it is a simple pass/fail result then go for the
   rect

   ChrisL: sometimes you can loose track if all the tests look the
   same

   (general agreement)

   heycam; does someone have an action to set up the test
   structure

   tav: i set it up like css. each contributor has a submit
   directory
   ... once apprved they get moved
   ... the structure to run through the reftests is not done

   heycam; wonder how easy t is to handle animation tests

   tav: we talked with peter Linss who said it was possible. we
   need an example

   <heycam> ScribeNick: heycam

   heycam: would be good to have these test guidelines on a wiki
   page

   Tav: we also have the test template that I worked on

   … we resolved on having a link to a copyright license, waiting
   on chris for that

   <scribe> ACTION: Cameron to create a test guideline page,
   mentioning rectangles and linking to template file [recorded in
   [23]http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-svg-minutes.html#action04]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-3259 - Create a test guideline page,
   mentioning rectangles and linking to template file [on Cameron
   McCormack - due 2012-04-26].

F2Fs

   Tav: I will probably be going to SVG Open

   heycam: I am not sure whether we want to meet at both SVG Open
   and TPAC

   <ChrisL> scribenick: ChrisL

   ChrisL: (describes how to set up the css harness)

   tav: can easily make a script that extracts that

   <heycam> ACTION: Tav to work with Chris to get test suite
   manifest scripts working [recorded in
   [24]http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-svg-minutes.html#action05]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-3260 - Work with Chris to get test
   suite manifest scripts working [on Tavmjong Bah - due
   2012-04-26].

   <scribe> ACTION: tav work with chris to create the test
   manifest [recorded in
   [25]http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-svg-minutes.html#action06]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-3261 - Work with chris to create the
   test manifest [on Tavmjong Bah - due 2012-04-26].

   <Tav>
   [26]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2/Testing_Require
   ments

     [26] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2/Testing_Requirements

   tav: chris we still lack the copyright link

   ChrisL: oh yes had forgotten about that

f2f

   heycam: lets not have 5 meetings

   Cyril: is the seattle one necessary

   shepazu; 5 is a lot

   Cyril: how about a seattle-paris videoconferenced meeting?

   Tav: its 9 hours difference. doable

   Cyril: might have some videoconf. polycom thing.

   cabanier: yes we have that too

   Cyril: will not be able to make seattle

   shepazu: maybe microsoft has facilities that would host this

   jen: yeah we could look into that

   25-27 july

   cabanier: adone is hosting but no issue if microsoft hosts

   Cyril; can tell you in a couple of weeks in paristech can host

   ChrisL; a split paris-seattle would be good for me

   ChrisL; would prefer to meet at svgopen rather thn tpac if we
   have to choose

   shepazu; who is going to tpac anyway

   (4 or 5)

   shepazu: so maybe a short mostly-liaison meeting at tpac

   heycam: ok so tell tpac that we only need one day?

   resolved: one day liaison meeting at tpac

   resolved: split seattle/paris ftf in july if feasible

   resolved: meet at svgopen/graphicalweb in zurich, main meet
   rather than tpac

   heycam: three meetings 2 months apart

   ChrisL: but fits in well with svg2 editing push

review of path related cancas additions

   <heycam>
   [27]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMa
   r/0192.html

     [27] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMar/0192.html

   ChrisL: dmitry had a nice proposal with a path-like syntax for
   animations

   heycam: relevat for the improved dom work
   ... as for feedback to html, my comments in the mail are that
   its is generally ok
   ... but how the object relates to our pathseglist which is
   yucky

   cabanier: idea is that people share knowledge between using
   canvas and svg

   heycam; pathseglist can't assign a new object, need to either
   replace all items or set upa whole new path data stream

   scribe: so for dom improvement, we should improve path and that
   informs how we relate to the html canvas path api. need to lok
   at our improvements before deciding that
   ... use of svgmatrix, functions for path to stroke or svg text
   on path are all fine as is

   shepazu: any other path based operations

   heycam; can't get path data out. can only paint it. its opaque

   shepazu: want an api that gives you vector effects like stuff

   ChrisL: yes we said we would add that on vector effects

   ChrisL; are the opaque path objects a problem here or not/ they
   can be manipulated, just not inspected

   heycam; might be a simplification or might be a way to avoid
   exposing it to script

   cabanier: gives more freedo on internal storage
   ... often you just want the result

   shepazu: can you do it with text and thus capture the text

   heycam: yes
   ... we wanted to capture text as outlines

   shepazu: so are these in the svg2 requirements

   heycam: dont think

   resolution: we will have a vector effects api to get reesulting
   paths (ned to discuss normalisation)

   ChrisL: easier to implement if the generated paths are not
   standardised, onkly the shape they make

   heycam: danger of a small, deep rathole
   ... so for review comments

   (general agreement with hecam's suggestions)

   <scribe> chair: heycam

   <heycam> ACTION: Cameron to mail HTML WG with path API comments
   [recorded in
   [28]http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-svg-minutes.html#action07]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-3262 - Mail HTML WG with path API
   comments [on Cameron McCormack - due 2012-04-26].

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Cameron to create a test guideline page,
   mentioning rectangles and linking to template file [recorded in
   [29]http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-svg-minutes.html#action04]
   [NEW] ACTION: Cameron to mail HTML WG with path API comments
   [recorded in
   [30]http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-svg-minutes.html#action07]
   [NEW] ACTION: chris propose an update to masking for luminance
   and alpha and pointing directly at images [recorded in
   [31]http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-svg-minutes.html#action01]
   [NEW] ACTION: ChrisL will look at alpha masking and luminance
   masking and talk to vhardy [recorded in
   [32]http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-svg-minutes.html#action02]
   [NEW] ACTION: cyril to send examples of gpac animation testing
   [recorded in
   [33]http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-svg-minutes.html#action03]
   [NEW] ACTION: Tav to work with Chris to get test suite manifest
   scripts working [recorded in
   [34]http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-svg-minutes.html#action05]
   [NEW] ACTION: tav work with chris to create the test manifest
   [recorded in
   [35]http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-svg-minutes.html#action06]

   [End of minutes]
     _____________________

-- 
 Chris Lilley   Technical Director, Interaction Domain                 
 W3C Graphics Activity Lead, Fonts Activity Lead
 Co-Chair, W3C Hypertext CG
 Member, CSS, WebFonts, SVG Working Groups
Received on Thursday, 19 April 2012 22:40:43 GMT

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