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Minutes, Nov 18 2010 SVG WG telcon

From: Anthony Grasso <Anthony.Grasso@cisra.canon.com.au>
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 21:45:11 +0000
To: "www-svg@w3.org" <www-svg@w3.org>
Message-ID: <923A4276C1903646BE5299CA8462B0A013CBD54E@EXM01-WVP.cisra.canon.com.au>
http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-svg-minutes.html


---

   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/


                               - DRAFT -

                   SVG Working Group Teleconference

18 Nov 2010

   [2]Agenda

      [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010OctDec/0150.html


   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-svg-irc


Attendees

   Present
          [IPcaller], ed, anthony, +33.9.53.77.aaaa, tav, ChrisL

   Regrets
          PD, CM

   Chair
          Erik

   Scribe
          Anthony

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]SVG 1.1 Issues and Actions
         2. [6]Test Suite
         3. [7]Opacity on mask elements
     * [8]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________

   <trackbot> Date: 18 November 2010

   <tbah> Pass code?

   <tbah> Hmm, that didn't work. I'll try again.

   <scribe> Scribe: Anthony

   <scribe> ScribeNick: anthony

SVG 1.1 Issues and Actions

   <ed> ISSUE-2332?

   <trackbot> ISSUE-2332 -- Last Call Comment: regarding Text layout --
   open

   <trackbot> [9]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2332


      [9] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2332


   ED: Regarding text layout
   ... raised by Alex in regard to later version of the spec
   ... Tav you investigated the issue

   TB: Yes, did I make some suggestions?

   ED: Yes you did. Problem is Alex thought they would raise other
   issues
   ... so he felt that it was best left for SVG 2 then
   ... My concern is getting SVG F1.1 finished
   ... so I don't mind moving it to SVG 2
   ... any objections?

   AG: None heard

   <ChrisL> issue-2332?

   <trackbot> ISSUE-2332 -- Last Call Comment: regarding Text layout --
   open

   <trackbot> [10]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2332


     [10] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2332


   RESOLUTION: We will move this issue to SVG 2

   ISSUE-2335?

   <trackbot> ISSUE-2335 -- Last Call Comment: Clarify feConvolveMatrix
   bias property -- raised

   <trackbot> [11]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2335


     [11] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2335


   AG: Just want to try out the formula for option 2 and compare it
   with the results in the specification

   ED: Will require some test to be written

   ISSUE-2346?

   <trackbot> ISSUE-2346 -- Last Call Comment: previous discussion
   about filterRes -- raised

   <trackbot> [12]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2346


     [12] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2346


   ED: No action assigned to it
   ... does Inkscape handle filterRes?

   TB: No

   ED: Opera does, but my guess is it is not very clearly defined what
   it means

   <scribe> ACTION: Erik to Investigate ISSUE-2346 [recorded in
   [13]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-svg-minutes.html#action01]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2908 - Investigate ISSUE-2346 [on Erik
   Dahlström - due 2010-11-25].

   ISSUE-2351?

   <trackbot> ISSUE-2351 -- Last Call Comment: Clarify that units are
   required on <length>s in style attribute; fix examples in text. --
   raised

   <trackbot> [14]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2351


     [14] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2351


   ED: Can we mark this as resolved or is there anymore actions to be
   done?

   TB: I recommended text changes for this one

   CL: I thought we had made some changes
   ... we clarified the style sheets, for example you could omit the
   unit
   ... I think people are confused is because they are looking at style
   attributes

   ED: There is nothing linked to the issue
   ... just wondering if that edit was made and not updated

   TB: I suggested some changes in July

   <tbah>
   [15]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010JulSep/004

   2.html

     [15] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010JulSep/0042.html


   TB: with some example changes

   CL: It wouldn't surprise me if those examples are wrong

   TB: It wasn't the SVG file that was a problem
   ... it was the text
   ... in Section 7.10

   <ed>
   [16]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/master/coords.html


     [16] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/master/coords.html


   <ed>
   [17]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010JulSep/004

   3.html

     [17] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010JulSep/0043.html


   CL: I'm editing this one in place

   <ChrisL> &lt;text font-size="50"&gt;Text size is 50 user
   units&lt;/text&gt;

   ED: Pointed out some minor issues

   CL: I've changed it to use the font-size property
   ... I changed it to be a presentation attribute

   TB: That's what I suggested it to be
   ... Aside from that, I did suggest some other changes
   ... to the text

   ED: Chris are you doing those edits as well?

   CL: Just trying to see where the edits are
   ... there are really 3 cases and not 2

   <ChrisL> For properties defined in CSS2 [CSS2], an angle unit
   identifier must be provided. For angle values in SVG-specific
   properties and their corresponding presentation attributes, the
   angle unit identifier is optional.

   CL: That what is says currently

   TB: The problem is to get to that place
   ... you have to go through a bunch of steps
   ... which is very confusing
   ... the suggested text changes I had were to clarify that

   CL: Ok I see

   TB: I'd be happy to edit the spec, but I don't have CVS access

   <ChrisL> I will fix that

   <scribe> ACTION: Tav to Make suggested edits to the specification
   that address ISSUE-2351 [recorded in
   [18]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-svg-minutes.html#action02]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2909 - Make suggested edits to the
   specification that address ISSUE-2351 [on Tavmjong Bah - due
   2010-11-25].

   ED: Any more actions

   CL: Yes there a few things that Helder metioned
   ... I've started addressing those
   ... In some cases he's made suggestions for the changes
   ... and we can use what he's suggested

   <scribe> ACTION: Chris to Cleanup changes appendix for SVG Full 1.1
   2nd Edition [recorded in
   [19]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-svg-minutes.html#action03]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2910 - Cleanup changes appendix for SVG
   Full 1.1 2nd Edition [on Chris Lilley - due 2010-11-25].

   CL: Also given an action to port some stuff over from SVG TIny 1.2
   ... on intrinsic dimensions
   ... had to port across some definitions as well
   ... which the new text referenced
   ... I've closed the action off just before the call

   ED: Was there a last call issue?

   CL: No, the CSS working group were looking at it and David Baron
   thought there was good text in SVG 1.2 Tiny

   <ed> ACTION-2815?

   <trackbot> ACTION-2815 -- Patrick Dengler to draft a complete
   response to ISSUE-2338 and research the answers to the questions
   asked -- due 2010-07-13 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot> [20]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2815


     [20] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2815


   ED: I saw Patrick has almost completed ACTION-2815

   <ChrisL> that was ACTION-2896: Copy the Intrinsic sizing wording in
   Tiny 1.2 to Full 1.1 2nd Edition by the way

   ED: I think the answer looks mostly complete
   ... one minor thing that wasn't quite clear
   ... Tav can you try to clear that up?

   TB: Ok

   <scribe> ACTION: Tav to Finish the response to Dr Olaf regarding
   ISSUE-2815 and fix the issues highlighted by Dr Olaf [recorded in
   [21]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-svg-minutes.html#action04]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2911 - Finish the response to Dr Olaf
   regarding ISSUE-2815 and fix the issues highlighted by Dr Olaf [on
   Tavmjong Bah - due 2010-11-25].

   ED: Was actually ISSUE-2338
   ... Ok I have a few issues

   <ed>
   [22]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010OctDec/015

   8.html

     [22] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010OctDec/0158.html


   ED: the first one was clarify paced animations
   ... it will just be porting wording from the Tiny 1.2 specification

   CL: Ok looks good

   <ed>
   [23]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010OctDec/015

   5.html

     [23] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010OctDec/0155.html


   ED: The other one is defining clip-path
   ... quite minor edit
   ... saying again if you put a clip-path property on a clip-path
   element then there is an effect

   CL: Ok

   <scribe> ACTION: Erik to clarify paced animations in SVG Full 1.1 by
   adding wording from SVG Tiny 1.2 [recorded in
   [24]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-svg-minutes.html#action05]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2912 - Clarify paced animations in SVG
   Full 1.1 by adding wording from SVG Tiny 1.2 [on Erik Dahlström -
   due 2010-11-25].

   <scribe> ACTION: Erik to Clarify that the clip-path property has an
   effect on the clipPath element [recorded in
   [25]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-svg-minutes.html#action06]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2913 - Clarify that the clip-path property
   has an effect on the clipPath element [on Erik Dahlström - due
   2010-11-25].

Test Suite

   ED: One of the first things is to clear up the confusion on the WOFF
   thing

   CL: I think there is some confusion that Microsoft wanted to make
   WOFF mandatory
   ... The idea is to add WOFF as a fall back
   ... I'm part way through that
   ... What I did find though it helped with I.E. 9
   ... but It didn't work with Firefox
   ... WOFF is required to read from the same origin
   ... so in a local file system having /../ is not allowed
   ... which means we will need to put the font in a sub directory in
   the test suite files directory with the WOFF files
   ... will this break any of the scripts?

   AG: Should be ok, as long as it is the last thing that gets done

   ED: We also use a packaging script to package all the directories up
   into a single archive

   RESOLUTION: For tests that use SVG fonts as part of the test we will
   add WOFF fall back fonts in addition to the SVG fonts

   <ed> styling-css-06-b.svg

   ED: I don't think the test should be dropped
   ... if anything we should have more tests for active and focus
   ... as this test is limited

   CL: Well we didn't originally have a test for it at all

   ED: I haven't tested this in Safari or Chrome

   CL: It passes in Opera

   ED: Ok so Safari doesn't seem to do the stroking it does do the
   underline
   ... not sure why that is
   ... might be because it's been selected
   ... apart from that, I think Safari is passing everything except
   that point with the particular stroke
   ... not sure what the cause is
   ... seems to be doing the same style rule and they should both apply
   at the same time

   CL: I don't see anything wrong with the test
   ... and I see specific wording in the SVG spec

   ED: It's close to being passed by more than one implementation
   ... I mean it is applying the correct style rule

   CL: I'm sort of tempted to leave it because it encourages them to
   fix their bug

   <ChrisL>
   [26]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/text.html#TextSelec

   tion

     [26] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/text.html#TextSelection


   CL: found the wording
   ... section 6.7
   ... in the old version

   <ChrisL> CSS2's dynamic pseudo-classes :hover, :active and :focus
   and pseudo-classes :first-child, :visited, :link and :lang ([CSS2],
   section 5.11). The remaining CSS2 pseudo-classes, including those
   having to do with generated content ([CSS2], chapter 12), are not
   part of the SVG language definition. (Note: an SVG element gains
   focus when it is selected. See Text selection.)

   <ChrisL>
   [27]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/styling.html#Stylin

   gWithCSS

     [27] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/styling.html#StylingWithCSS


   AG: Just wondering if we should change the wording

   <scribe> ACTION: Chris to Remove the "Note:" in section 6.7 in the
   specification regarding style events on text [recorded in
   [28]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-svg-minutes.html#action07]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2914 - Remove the "Note:" in section 6.7
   in the specification regarding style events on text [on Chris Lilley
   - due 2010-11-25].

   <ed>
   [29]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010OctDec/007

   2.html

     [29] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010OctDec/0072.html


Opacity on mask elements

   ED: Email is about whether opacity and mask elements have some sort
   of effect
   ... I think that most implementations apply an opacity on a mask
   element
   ... the test on the email show that Firefox, Opera and Safari
   ... render the square red
   ... meaning there is no effect from the opacity
   ... I think Patrik was asking this to be clarified
   ... first of all is that the behaviour that we want

   TB: Inkscape is doing the same thing as firefox
   ... one red square, two green

   AG: when you mask something you're clipping it

   ED: Yes

   AG: So doesn't really make sense to have an opacity on a mask

   ED: I think adding some wording to say that opacity doesn't apply to
   mask elements is a good clarification to make

   AG: Where would you add that?

   ED: The mask property lists that it applies to container elements
   ... and that it is a container element

   <ed> 'opacity' property -> Applies to: graphics elements and
   container elements (except for the <mask> element)

   ED: The alternative thing to do would be remove mask elements from
   container elements
   ... Another possible change would be list all the general elements,
   but that wouldn't be very pretty

   CL: Could even add a sentence to say that if the mask element is not
   directly rendered the opacity has no effect
   ... Might be worth explaining in the specification why that is

   <scribe> ACTION: Erik to Clarify that opacity does no apply to mask
   [recorded in
   [30]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-svg-minutes.html#action08]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2915 - Clarify that opacity does no apply
   to mask [on Erik Dahlström - due 2010-11-25].

   trackbot, end telcon

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Chris to Cleanup changes appendix for SVG Full 1.1 2nd
   Edition [recorded in
   [31]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-svg-minutes.html#action03]
   [NEW] ACTION: Chris to Remove the "Note:" in section 6.7 in the
   specification regarding style events on text [recorded in
   [32]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-svg-minutes.html#action07]
   [NEW] ACTION: Erik to clarify paced animations in SVG Full 1.1 by
   adding wording from SVG Tiny 1.2 [recorded in
   [33]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-svg-minutes.html#action05]
   [NEW] ACTION: Erik to Clarify that opacity does no apply to mask
   [recorded in
   [34]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-svg-minutes.html#action08]
   [NEW] ACTION: Erik to Clarify that the clip-path property has an
   effect on the clipPath element [recorded in
   [35]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-svg-minutes.html#action06]
   [NEW] ACTION: Erik to Investigate ISSUE-2346 [recorded in
   [36]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-svg-minutes.html#action01]
   [NEW] ACTION: Tav to Finish the response to Dr Olaf regarding
   ISSUE-2815 and fix the issues highlighted by Dr Olaf [recorded in
   [37]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-svg-minutes.html#action04]
   [NEW] ACTION: Tav to Make suggested edits to the specification that
   address ISSUE-2351 [recorded in
   [38]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-svg-minutes.html#action02]

   [End of minutes]
     _________________________________________________________


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    ([40]CVS log)
    $Date: 2010/11/18 21:36:48 $
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     [39] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm

     [40] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/


Scribe.perl diagnostic output

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Check for newer version at [41]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002

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     [41] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/


Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/would/wouldn't/
Succeeded: s/no effect/an effect/
Succeeded: s/other/alternative/
Succeeded: s/element is directly/element is not directly/
Succeeded: s/'mask' property/'opacity' property/
Found Scribe: Anthony
Inferring ScribeNick: anthony
Found ScribeNick: anthony
Default Present: [IPcaller], ed, anthony, +33.9.53.77.aaaa, tav, ChrisL
Present: [IPcaller] ed anthony +33.9.53.77.aaaa tav ChrisL
Regrets: PD CM
Agenda: [42]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010OctDe

c/0150.html
Found Date: 18 Nov 2010
Guessing minutes URL: [43]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-svg-minutes.html

People with action items: chris erik tav

     [42] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010OctDec/0150.html

     [43] http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-svg-minutes.html


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