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Minutes Oct 5 2010 SVG WG telcon

From: Erik Dahlstrom <ed@opera.com>
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2010 23:39:14 +0200
To: "public-svg-wg@w3.org" <public-svg-wg@w3.org>
Message-ID: <op.vj4g3oz3geuyw5@mbp.local>
html:


     http://www.w3.org/2010/10/05-svg-minutes.html


text:


    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

                    SVG Working Group Teleconference

05 Oct 2010

    See also: [2]IRC log

       [2] http://www.w3.org/2010/10/05-svg-irc

Attendees

    Present
           [Microsoft], ed, +39.537.7.aaaa, Shepazu, [IPcaller]

    Regrets
           CL

    Chair
           ed

    Scribe
           ed

Contents

      * [3]Topics
          1. [4]ISSUE-2353
          2. [5]SVG Integration
          3. [6]new zeeland f2f
          4. [7]testsuite
          5. [8]feColorRamp
      * [9]Summary of Action Items
      _________________________________________________________

    <trackbot> Date: 05 October 2010

ISSUE-2353

    ISSUE-2353?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-2353 -- Last Call Comment: Clarify coordinates for
    feImage. -- raised

    <trackbot> [10]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2353

      [10] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2353

    [11]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-svg-editors/2010Oct/0
    011.html

      [11]  
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-svg-editors/2010Oct/0011.html

    [12]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/filters.html#feImag
    eElement

      [12]  
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/filters.html#feImageElement

SVG Integration

    <scribe> scribeNick: ed

    DS: AG updated the tables, some minor bugs but it's good enough as a
    starting point
    ... added elements, attributes and properties into SVGIntegration
    ... and filed a bug with HTML5 to not whitelist some attributes and
    elements but rather to refer to SVG Integration

    <shepazu> [13]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10965

      [13] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10965

    DS: we've discussed this concern before
    ... HTML5 will be contemporary with SVG2
    ... need to collect all attributes and elements from all specs
    ... i've outlined an algorithm for dealing with mixed-case
    ... it's well established
    ... in unicode

    PD: that's lowercasing everything, right?
    ... could you forward-compatible this, such that elements
    automatically work?
    ... can we skip the tables?

    DS: casematching is an issue, most authors don't care, but xml does
    ... but svg in html isn't xml anymore
    ... could consider it as two serializations
    ... or we could make schema that allows both
    ... not sure it's worth it
    ... though if we think people will screw up casing
    ... have seen people getting 'viewBox' wrong, it has a capital B,
    i've seen 'viewbox' many times

    PD: don't buy your xslt argument, if you want to use that you make
    sure you have valid xml

    DS: we'll face similar issues with CSS properties, where properties
    are shared
    ... e.g with lowercasing case-sensitive values

    PD: there are technolgies that were done in svg first, but which are
    now moving into the html5 space
    ... things that aren't necessarily bound to vector graphics

    DS: we should try to make features maximally useful to the web
    languages
    ... svg didn't define the xml format, wouldn't mind if there was a
    similar effort to make xml-like format that allows error-correction
    as html5 does, such that we get case-insensitivty, leaving off
    attribute quotemarks
    ... maybe there should be a more forgiving parser for xml
    ... in the svg2 timeframe, we need to resolve the case sensititvy

    PD: we need to take a stand on strict xml vs looser syntax
    ... it's the most important topic

    DS: PD you're writing up a whitepaper for tpac?

    PD: more of a gathering of thoughts

    <scribe> ...in progress, trying to get it ready before tpac

    UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: to get feedback on it

    DS: as a starting position that would be useful

    PD: we need to find our position, xml or not

    DS: the goal is to adopt svg, not particulary xml
    ... the case sensitityv is an obstacle

    PD: people are likely going to learn svg from the html perspective
    ... they're doing css transforms, not svg transforms

    DS: we should put a high priority on filters, and transforms
    ... anything we are going to be sharing

    <jwatt> Zakim: ++P0 is me

    <jwatt> Zakim: ??P0 is me

    DS: how do we make it as easy as possible for people to use svg?
    with the ideoms they're already familiar with
    ... PD said that he thinks this is urgent

new zeeland f2f

    PD: when's that?

    DS: late february

    ED: JW do you have any more details?

    JW: need to narrow down the dates

    DS: could you send out an email?

    JW: ok

    DS: PD will you be able to go?

    PD: will check

testsuite

    PD: how do we get the microsoft tests accepted by the wg?

    ED: get them reviewed by people on the group, know it's hard and
    people are pressed for time and so on

    PD: we are working on categorizing the tests better, to say that the
    users can code to particular modules
    ... we need to get the message across that svg is ready for
    primetime

    DS: when i did presentations filters is the thing that excites
    people the most
    ... maybe it will come to be seen as a css feature though
    ... it's still percieved as an svg feature
    ... we might start talking about reorganization, functionality sets
    ... we're doing a report on the testsuite, on tests that we think
    are broken
    ... some tests are using features like declarative animation
    ... our proposal would be to make the tests more finegrained
    ... the test naming
    ... an alternative route... a dependency chain for each spec
    ... for each test what part of the spec is that test testing
    ... in terms of organizing the tests we should add metadata to say
    what dependencies the test has
    ... so if you have filters in a markers test, link to those sections

    PD: sounds like a lot of work
    ... there are too many dependencies in the tests

    DS: we could categorize the tests, renaming is one thing

    ED: renaming tests in cvs, not a great idea, loses history
    ... would love to move to more modern version control system though

    PD: beauty of the web website has some great svg examples

    <pdengler> [14]http://www.beautyoftheweb.com/

      [14] http://www.beautyoftheweb.com/

    <pdengler> [15]http://www.thekillersmusic.com/HTML5#tour-browse

      [15] http://www.thekillersmusic.com/HTML5#tour-browse

    <pdengler> [16]http://www.skybeautiful.com/

      [16] http://www.skybeautiful.com/

feColorRamp

    <shepazu>
    [17]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Oct/0031.html

      [17] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Oct/0031.html

    ED: sounds a bit like feComponentTransfer

    TB: this is indexed colors

    PD: let's put it in the issue tracker

    DS: i'd like to cut out all but one color channel
    ... e.g take away all color except blue
    ... is that doable?

    PD: is that different from masking?

    DS: don't know

    trackbot, make minutes

    <trackbot> Sorry, ed, I don't understand 'trackbot, make minutes'.
    Please refer to [18]http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help

      [18] http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc

    trackbot, end telcon

Summary of Action Items

    [End of minutes]
      _________________________________________________________


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Regrets: CL
Found Date: 05 Oct 2010
Guessing minutes URL: [22]http://www.w3.org/2010/10/05-svg-minutes.html
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Received on Tuesday, 5 October 2010 21:40:22 GMT

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